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Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Eastern	Ben Cairn	(General)	(General)	[ Ben Cairn Guide \| Images ]

Topic Date User

ben cairn 8-Feb-2007 At 12:21:05 PM andi nismo

Message

Given the tragedy which has unfolded today this all seems incredibly uninportant. BUT, I want to reply to a couple of the points made by M9iswhereitsat.

M9, I don't believe ones climbing level has much to do with ego. I myself have been climbing for 17 years and I have never led anything harder than 23. These days I'd be lucky to lead a 21. It's not about, nor has it ever been about numbers. I was refering to your comments in the context that they seemed to be more about you and your 'bold ethic' than the subject which was on the table. If I misinterrpreted your meaning then I am not above apologizing for having a go at you.

You need not assume that I include you amongst the 'goons'. In fact from what you have written on this site, I would conclude the opposite about you. I am not referring to the amount of time one has been into a certain outdoor activity, it is the consumer mentality which has become a part of society at large which I have seen infiltrate climbing. Whilst I do not wish to inflame this debate, it is mostly the younger people getting into sport climbing via the gym 'scene' who I see as the main ticketholders to this mentality.

I think on the subject of wholesale cleaning of routes, that you might find we actually agree. Wholesale cleaning is obscene, as is the mentality that we can do what we like in the name of uncovering a new route. But let me ask you M9, will you climb a route which had to be scrubbed, no matter how long ago? Or do your ethics preclude you from going near such routes? Do you only climb 'dirty' routes? In your opinion is it ever justifiable to scrub down a new line? Just curious by the way, I'm not having a go.

I must say I am confused, I can't find anything I have written which points to me wanting to head up to the 'Ben' to sterelize the entire area, I was thinking of cleaning a couple of the easier routes like Jerrys big corner(I think I have the name right), and a couple of the easier routes to the right of Jerrys. All of a sudden I had people suggesting this and that. I may have been a little defensive in my replies because I felt people were making assumptions about my intentions. I agree with Neils well put comment about leaving the more obscure routes as they are. Hmm, there's two points on which we agree M9!

Finally, I happen to agree with Dalais comment, which by the way I don't think means that we near Melbourne run around helter skelter cleaning every little piece of rock we can find.

M9, I offer you the pipe of peace!