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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Buffalo	The Horn Environs	(General)	The Horn	[ Horn Guide ]

Topic Date User

Bolting at The Horn, Mount Buffalo 3-Mar-2013 At 4:12:02 PM crazyjohn

Message

On 1/03/2013 ratherbeclimbinv9 wrote:
>I think you have been reading different posts to the ones I have John.
>
>In the ones I read Andrew never said he bolted anything (in fact he implied
>otherwise, though possibly knows the person that did) and his comments
>about 'face to the mirror' which you've quoted quite a few times seemed
>to be about the tendency for traditional climbers to be inward-looking
>- as in, unwilling to accept any feedback or legitimacy from anyone but
>their own.

>Which, let's be really honest, you reinforced with your comment about
>trad climbers allowing people to climb on their cliffs ;)

Well it certainly is not the other way around that guides "allow" trad climbers to climb. Here is a brief history of climbing and Andrew's take on it;
1. Recreational climbers invent rock climbing.
2. Recreational climbers establish a cliff as a trad area..
3. Paid guides come into existence.
4. Because of the commercial value to the cliffs, guides now have more right to access than recreational climbers.
5. Andrew is full of it.

Trad climbers actually do have a large decision in how a guide operates. If a guide retrobolts a trad route, trad climbers can chop it. End of discussion. Its not the other way around. Andrew's attitude is outrageous. I think it is pointing out the obvious that the people who started climbing for fun and adventure and carried forward the same tradition for decades have more of a say about a cliff than someone looking to make money. This is not inward thinking. It seems to me a self-evident truism.

>If this is going to continue for eons, perhaps it's worth knowing who
>*actually* bolted these lines so that the discussion is appropriately held
>with the person responsible...

He "implies" he didnt bolt, but he doesnt deny it. And his comments imply that he supports bolting if it furthers paid guiding activity. Regardless, for being such a big shot climbing instructor, his opinions are waaaay out there and need to be challenged if not corrected.