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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Buffalo	The Horn Environs	(General)	The Horn	[ Horn Guide ]

Topic Date User

Bolting at The Horn, Mount Buffalo 1-Mar-2013 At 4:02:10 PM crazyjohn

Message

On 1/03/2013 Wendy wrote:

>And CJ, some, but not very many, guides, have been placing bolts for their
>convenience disguised as environmental concern, and many, many guides have
>not been! It is nice to maintain some context that a lot of guides take
>people out climbing with no more impact on the rock and other users than
>other private groups have. And that many non-guides have placed bolts for
>their own convenience as well. And it is possible to have bolts that are
>both convenient and environmentally justifiable.

Well yes, I am quite aware of this. I said as much several times. I think it is important to make the distinction between convenience bolts for everyone (like the bolts on Dribble) and convenience bolts for guiding.

Andrew has openly stated that he thinks commercial guides have more right to the cliff (and I presume he means more right to bolt) than recreational users. I think this is contrary to most climbers in Australia and the rest of the world. In fact, it is pretty 'F'ing out there. I know there is a big grey area with bolts and like to think Im pretty relaxed about it. But when a guide like Andrew, who is actively bolting and not just spouting hypotheticals, comes out and says paid guides have more right to bolt than the rest of us, it seems to me the dude has flipped his wig. Its guys like this that make a continuing mockery of Certified Climbing Instructors. He is going to spread his crappy ethic, screw up trad cliffs, and get paid for it.

I think you have suggested the (what should be dead obvious) thing for Andrew to do; Find an out of the way crag to bolt(if he absolutely must) to take his paying clients. I dont think he cares.His comments already demonstrate that he thinks he is totally justified in bolting anything he wants (as an "educator") and everyone who disagrees are fundamentalists with "their face too close to the mirror".