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OT: Moorabal/Lal Lal wind farm 2-Sep-2009 At 8:52:22 PM evanbb

Message

On 2/09/2009 pete05 wrote:
>Evan, sounds to me like you have no comback.
>So you say hydro is storage now?
Of course it's bloody storage, it's called 'pumped hydro storage'. Doesn't that count? Or do you want the actual electrons from the wind turbine stored on the same site for it to count? Why on earth does it have to be on site? Do you have any understanding of electricity markets at all?

well i spose it kind of is, yes you can
>pump water back up the hill, but is there anywhere where another type of
>renewable is used on site to provide the energy to do this?
So you want a world wide example of on site energy storage from a renewables project. Or does it have to be wind, to prove that the wind electrons can be stored, and that they can be stored close to the generation point rather than in an enormous cost effective energy storage unit that services the whole grid.
Try here for starters:
http://www.electricitystorage.org/site/technologies/nas_batteries/
"The largest NAS installation is a 34 MW, 245 MWh unit for wind stabilization in Northern Japan."

>Why would anyone want it next to their or friends home?
Because they can make money and watch energy be generated that doesn't involve digging holes and burning things. Besides, I'm not advocating putting turbines in communities, I agree that the planning laws need work. All I'm trying to do is stop you spreading a load of crap to push your own agenda.

>You seem to be so in love with wind that you even deny it needs a subsidy
>to exist
This is a pretty deep statement really, probably more than you realise. The crux of the issue is how you feel about market economics. Should externalities be included in the price of goods and services? As I've said before, it is NOT A SUBSIDY, but an attempt to put a value on avoiding the externalities. This money doesn't come from the Government, but from the value of traded certificates. The Govt creates the framework, but doesn't supply the cash, hence it is not a subsidy.
I'm not necessarily in love with wind, but recognise that it is the cheapest option available right now and we should fire them out. I would rather the MRET didn't exist, and would prefer a proper trading scheme. We're not going to get that while XenoFielding hold the balance of power in the senate, so, MRET it is.

>But of course its not a subsidy because its called mret! I doubt if one
>single turbine would be put up without it.
The Albany wind farm was put up before the MRET.