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Ethics versus style debate continued 1-Jan-2007 At 1:43:55 PM BigMike

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It's all a bit early on a New Year's Day for this, and it's 20 years since I studied philosophy at uni, and I'm at work today, so I can't dedicate too much time to what appears to be a rapidly evolving argument about semantics (see what you started Organ Pipe!).

But since you've taken the trouble to post such a detailed response, a few points in reply.

We're getting hung up on words here so let's go to the good old Macquarie:

ethics
plural noun 1. a system of moral principles, by which human actions and proposals may be judged good or bad or right or wrong. 2. the rules of conduct recognised in respect of a particular class of human actions - medical ethics. 3. moral principles, as of an individual.

style

noun 1. a particular kind, sort, or type, as with reference to form, appearance, or character. 2. a particular, distinctive, or characteristic mode of action. 3. a mode of living, as with respect to expense or display.

So, it might be bad style to grab a draw, but hardly immoral?

Interestingly, the link you urged me to read, from planet fear, seems to draw a similar distinction:

"There are two basic rules in climbing, which form the basis of all ethics, they are:

1. Do not alter what you are climbing
2. Do not mislead others over what you have climbed."

Of course ethics get more messy when they are being formulated, for example, when a cliff is being developed as trad and someone decides to come a-bolting...

And yes, ethics do inform style, but I think most climbers are happy to distinguish between the former as ``actions that affect others' enjoyment'' and the latter as ``how you conduct your own climbing experience''.

But this is all hard work for a new year's day...

I leave you with the last word on the subject, by good old Lewis Carroll ... a crucial quote for all arguments over language use':

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'