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General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User

euro ticking machine 5-May-2005 At 12:41:12 PM Onsight

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On 5/05/2005 LittleMac wrote:
>... and shouldn't they be subject to the same ethicla and moral
>guidleines as every one else. ...

Ohhhh, PLEEEEEASE, spare us. I’ve already read enough armchair moralising this week.

Fact is, in Europe, and worldwide for that matter, an onsight ascent of a SPORT route IS generally accepted to still be an "onsight" if the draws are in place. Sounds like a bunch of people here were not aware of that - but that is the fact. Not only witness Yuji's onsight of the 8c, put also that this very well documented ascent has been widely reported by all the climbing media around the world and there hasn't been a negative murmur about it. It's not an elitist thing. Some people may not agree with it (particularly some here on this forum) but the term IS generally used that way (worldwide).

Trad, of course, is different. Personally I would not call an ascent "onsight" if TRAD gear was in-situ. Now I can't say definitely what the common usage of that is overseas, but I think it is generally used differently there too. This would not mean we need two different terms (like 'sport onsight' and 'trad onsight'), it just means that, as always, people just have to understand it's meaning and the CONTEXT in which it is used.

This is such a non-issue. It's not something that warrants discussion ad nauseam.

BTW, the poll is worthless as it is based on false assumptions.

PS. I think many good climbers understand the terminology and just get on with it.