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Manufacturing 24-Aug-2004 At 7:17:25 PM Onsight

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Having already made my thoughts on this issue pretty clear earlier in the year I wasn’t going to get involved in this one… but then my fingers just started hitting the keys and once I started, well, I just couldn’t stop em, and before I knew it I had a completely manufactured post!

But seriously, what changed is that another week has gone by and I’ve heard of not one, but two, instances of “manufacturing” up here in the Blue Mtns (one subtle from months ago, the other blatant and recent). Why o why??? It’s pretty clearly not generally accepted elsewhere, so what is it that makes a climber think it might be OK up here in the Bluies? Robbo/Rohan, was this the very reason for your troll – perhaps to help educate your mate?

Mikl, many thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. My own opinion on this has also changed considerably over the years and it was interesting to hear why your opinion has changed too, “Many of the reasons to manufacture have gone now that there are gyms…”. I do hope some will find that instructive.

What’s past is past, but we can learn from it. IMO, chipping (holds on or off), drilling, enhancing, bolting on holds, gluing on holds, or gluing over holds to make them unusable, is all part of the same “manufacturing mindset” and I believe these are all potentially very destructive practices. Any “good outcome” can just as easily turn out to be a “bad outcome”, or short-sighted, or a “bad example” to others at the very least. And what exactly is a “good outcome” anyway? Seems highly subjective to me. We do have to draw the line somewhere - so let’s get it right. No manufacturing thanks.

Dalai, thanks for pointing out that attitudes have changed in Europe – as indeed they have. When I was over there recently I asked Italian climber Cristian Brenna about this very issue and he said attitudes in Europe have changed enormously since the mid 90’s, he said that was because climbers realised it was a “dead end” for the sport.

Rod, thanks for the great contribution and particularly for pointing out that “just because it was done in the past, or elsewhere, doesn't make it right”.
On 11/08/2004 rodw wrote:
>How come everybody got so upset about cossy's 34 then. he was first ascentionist
>and modified the route to suit, which is what chipping does.
Actually, just for the record, the chipping was only one of the issues at play there (the fact you are referring to it as 34 hints at another issue).

On 12/08/2004 robbo wrote:
>Is >it true you don't even climb outside damietta neverlone bolt routes yourself.
>If this is true your opinion counts towards about two fifths of f--- all.
I know what it’s like be totally psyched to put up new routes, but if someone isn’t actually establishing new routes then it certainly doesn’t mean their opinion in this matter isn’t every bit as valid.