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My ground fall in the Gramps


Rupert

22-Jul-2003
5:30:31 PM

Looking at it carefully in slow motion It actually seems like your left hand popped, followed closely by your right, your feet actually looked pretty solid and were the last to go - the bit that makes me cringe is where you appear to be grabbing the rope as you fall and expecting it catch you.

Neil since you are ok I feel its probably not 'bad taste' to make light of it - try playing the video backwards.. you do a huge dyno from a sit down start!


nmonteith

22-Jul-2003
5:50:44 PM

Full length larger version of fall is now online here - see the blood and the smile!

http://www.mrppp.com.au/nhb/movies/tower_fall_big.mpg


fruityarse

22-Jul-2003
6:32:31 PM

Once again, I want to stress my little experience in trad gear placement.

However....

IMHO, weight plays a very large part not so much with gear placement, but more so with gear holding. Devil's advocate - place a piece of pro and let it sit on its own - provided it is a good placement it will hold. Now gradually increase the weight placed on it and it may / may not walk, may / may not pop. Of course, many other factors come into play here - BUT - my point is simply that there is less strain and stress on a placement when a 65 or 70 kg climber falls as opposed to an 80kg climber. Keep in mind that this is not a static weight either - momentum is also involved with the fall which would also affect the placement.

For those of us around or over that weight - larger is meant in comparison to most climbers ;)


alrob

22-Jul-2003
6:33:15 PM

those will be some scars to be proud of. Thanks for sharing with us all.

al thinks..."damn, those will be cool, where can i get some scars like that??"


nmonteith

22-Jul-2003
7:16:36 PM

I have done a heap of aiding - which in practice means i weight and fall onto almost every piece i place. 99.99% of the time the gear holds my weight fine.


fruityarse

22-Jul-2003
7:42:34 PM

Cool...

No dig intended at yours or anybody's weight or your skill level. Was just sharing my thought process on the topic as it is what currently keeps me off rad routes!


phil_nev

22-Jul-2003
7:56:51 PM

It looks like after kent realises your ok, he pissing himself laughing......

kieranl

22-Jul-2003
10:28:17 PM

Neil,
every climber I know has f---ed up at some stage. Mostly we get away with it.

Last weekend I rode my ride-on mower into a thin branch of a rose-bush. I was really lucky that I didn't rip the soft-tissue of my nose apart or damage my eye.

We have to learn the lesson and move on. If someone hasn't told me that, they should have.

Kieran


Donut King

22-Jul-2003
11:55:45 PM

what ...no safety goggles !!!

oh my ..a ride-on lawn mower though...man am i jealous!

glad to hear both you and Neil have survived the weekend.

dk


GG

23-Jul-2003
8:33:43 AM

Fruityarse you are a lightweight. Try 94kg......

(removed)

23-Jul-2003
10:00:18 AM

I'm 87 kegs at the moment (hence my id) ... does anyone really believe that I'm THAT much more likely to pull gear than someone who is (say) 70 kilo's ?? I'd suggest that (with the exception of maybe small RP's where deformation of the nut can sway things) the gear is going to hold or not regardless of the weight of the climber.


Rich

23-Jul-2003
12:41:32 PM

On 23/07/2003 FatBoy wrote:
>I'm 87 kegs at the moment (hence my id) ... does anyone really believe
>that I'm THAT much more likely to pull gear than someone who is (say) 70
>kilo's ?? I'd suggest that (with the exception of maybe small RP's where
>deformation of the nut can sway things) the gear is going to hold or not
>regardless of the weight of the climber.

Exactly. If it's on bomber gear and assuming nice solid araps rock :-) weight's only going to come into play when you're talking about putting the gear to it's force limits which shouldn't generally occur on an "everyday" fall.


fruityarse

23-Jul-2003
4:44:54 PM

Blimey...land of the giants!!!!!!

My consistant reference to weight is done so keeping in mind the limited sport science research that exists on climbers. This research also constantly states that climbers have "phenomenal" power to weight ratios, in part due to their "lighter" body weight. Mind you, these studies have looked at semi-elite climbers - whatever they classify that as!

My (devil's advocate again) response to Rich's and Fatboy's comments - which I think are absolutely valid - is that a bigger climber will put the gear to its force limit. Yes, I do think that as a bigger climber - with all other things equal - you will be more susceptible to pulling gear during a fall. Whether this is an "everyday" fall or not, I suppose depends on many other factors.

Bungy is a nice example - different size bungy for different body weights. Granted, a bungy jump has a vastly looooooonger fall than a climbing fall - the principle of shocking the system with too much weight is what I am trying to nut out here....

I am also trying to get some research up and running here to look at recovery rates and different recovery modalities in between climbs - will let you all know the results if it goes ahead!


tmarsh

23-Jul-2003
5:06:04 PM

I've got to say I'm stunned at the weights people are bandying about here. I weigh about 64kg and would have thought I was kinda average for a climber. If Fruity is right, I should be running it out on RPs instead of dogging moves on glue-ins!

tim


phil_nev

23-Jul-2003
7:05:43 PM

Wasnt being a smart arse kent, i know its not a laughing matter, it just looked like u were laughing after u realised he was ok.
Phil


Hardware

23-Jul-2003
7:17:02 PM

From the footage shown it looks like you're smiling but the footage is blury :-)

Dalai

23-Jul-2003
8:40:33 PM

Depends what standard of climber you are refering to Tim. When I was competing and on a strict diet I still just couldn't get under 70 kg - but then against the other elite climbers I was a heavy weight even then!!


fruityarse

24-Jul-2003
2:43:14 AM

Tend to agree with Tim on this one...

Certainly here in Asia the climbers are not lightweight, they are featherweight!!!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

24-Jul-2003
8:49:41 AM

Was thinking about this fall and analysing it a bit in my mind, since viewing the video.

Could it be that because Kent is standing back from the 'line' of the climb and away from the face due to the chasm, that when the tricam was loaded by the fall it also simultaneously received an oblique (sideways and out) loading (from Kents belay), ... thus causing it to lift out ? Hard toget it exact from the video, but the same probably happened to the marginal stopper?

In my (trad) climbing experience, the 1st piece I place on a wandering line (or if the belay is off to one side), is good for an upward load to prevent subsequent placements stripping when the top piece gets loaded. Granted Neil had not yet placed subsequent pieces ... but the principle still applies.

On the other topic of weight. I think fruity is probably correct in absolute terms but mikl puts it in perspective due to it being 3/5 of bugger-all in the scheme of things re friction, rope strength, elasticity etc
I weigh 85 kg (and with aid gear considerably more). I have had a 2m fall arrested by my fifi hook (statically off my harness) on a well placed #3 RP which held, though the resulting bruises to my hips lasted for ages.
In the 'real world' strange things happen, but I dont plan on gear holding like this when my common sense says it shouldnt have!

James

24-Jul-2003
1:40:00 PM

the scratches on the tri-cam were not consistent with the gear ripping out (rather, it ripped down). But this doesn't help explain how it pulled, but I think perhaps the smooth slick wet rock had a more major part to play.

Re weight of climbers. A mate of mine recently took a 8-10m wipper onto a cam that was placed in what I would consider poor rock (Glasshouse Mtns in Qld). The cam held beautifully. Go figure. If gear is placed correctly I don't think a climbers weight is a significant factor.

There are 48 messages in this topic.