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6-Sep-2011 8:15:44 PM
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On 6/09/2011 Wendy wrote:
>But really, "i've long been inspired to climb at Ceuse on trad"???
> And it was like a commercial. His sponsors certainly couldn't complain
>about the coverage they got. Still, good looking route. I could understand
>why people rave about Ceuse in the 8s from that. I continue to profess
>it's a crap crag if you climb in the 6s though and sadly, not much better
>these days if you cilmb 7s.
Dam it - I was gonna write an "I'm psyched to climb there" post as I'll be meeting back up with Hamish in three days at Ceus. Now I'll have to settle with a "I'm happy to be back climbing and it's at Ceus" post
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6-Sep-2011 10:51:48 PM
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On 6/09/2011 Wendy wrote:
>I also think this is pretty contrived. Ditto that guy doing the same
>thing on a 5.14 in the New. Rapping and checking out the gear, having it
>all racked up, draws on, in order on your harness ...
Why is this ascent any more contrived than your usual redpoint of routes - where all the gear is pre-placed? (not to mention the use of long slings on protection above to minimise run-outs and/or gnarly clips).
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7-Sep-2011 12:18:25 AM
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Because he clearly got the thing wired on bolts first............I guess you could do that with a toprope on a trad route. It just seems extra dumb to be carrying on about a potential groundfall from 20m when there's a massive fixed hanger at the dude's elbow.
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7-Sep-2011 2:36:26 AM
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M9, those slings weren't girth hitched...what is wrong with biner to biner? The gates can twist open which sucks but I see no issue when they are locked? I do it all the time...just wondering.
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7-Sep-2011 7:00:25 AM
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On 6/09/2011 simey wrote:
>On 6/09/2011 Wendy wrote:
>>I also think this is pretty contrived. Ditto that guy doing the same
>>thing on a 5.14 in the New. Rapping and checking out the gear, having
>it
>>all racked up, draws on, in order on your harness ...
>
>Why is this ascent any more contrived than your usual redpoint of routes
>- where all the gear is pre-placed? (not to mention the use of long slings
>on protection above to minimise run-outs and/or gnarly clips).
Because I''ve never made any claim other than to be doing something totally contrived! I freely admit I turn hard trad routes into "better than sport" routes. And I'm certainly not denying myself the use of good protection that is there and available! The route is a sport route. It's been done that way because the gear is minimal. what if he wanted to go and chop the bolts now he's proven it can be done without them? If he wants to lead hard trad, he could just go lead hard trad ... And I do think there's minimal point placing the gear on lead if you know all the gear and even have it racked up ready to go. it's not exactly the trad leading experience either.
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7-Sep-2011 8:03:19 AM
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On 7/09/2011 Wendy wrote:
>Because I''ve never made any claim other than to be doing something totally
>contrived!
So you are allowed to do contrived ascents but Arnaud Petit isn't?
>The route is a sport route. It's been done that way because the gear is minimal.
It's been done that way because it is France and most climbs are established as sport-routes irrespective of natural protection.
>what if he wanted to go and chop the bolts now he's proven it can be done without them?
I don't think he is wanting to do that. I got the impression he just wanted to see if could climb that wall purely on natural gear.
>If he wants to lead hard trad, he could just go lead hard trad...
Well he just has, on a route that has provided a far more hard trad experience than most of the hard trad things out there.
>And I do think there's minimal point placing the gear on lead if you know all the gear and even have it racked up ready to go. it's not exactly the trad leading experience either.
What are you talking about? Of course it is more effort if you have to lug up the gear and hang around to place it. It is a definite step-up from having it pre-placed, particularly if you are tackling a 55m 8b. I'm just surprised that you can call his ascent contrived, particularly given your own approach of leading 15m routes on pre-placed gear after top-roping them. As for the trad leading experience, I think Arnaud Petit is no stranger to trad having climbed around the world on some pretty adventurous routes.
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7-Sep-2011 8:17:00 AM
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On 7/09/2011 simey wrote:
>On 7/09/2011 Wendy wrote:
>>Because I''ve never made any claim other than to be doing something totally
>>contrived!
>So you are allowed to do contrived ascents but Arnaud Petit isn't?
of course, you have it exactly right - the difference is I'm doing one of them!
>
>>The route is a sport route. It's been done that way because the gear
>is minimal.
>It's been done that way because it is France and most climbs are established
>as sport-routes irrespective of natural protection.
Bollocks! I've done plenty of trad climbing in France. It's done that way because french limestone tends to be very gear unfriendly, it's already a sport crag and there is in reality, not that much gear in it.
>
>>what if he wanted to go and chop the bolts now he's proven it can be
>done without them?
>I don't think he is wanting to do that. I got the impression he just wanted
>to see if could climb that wall purely on natural gear.
There's even at least one actual trad route on ceuse.
>
>>If he wants to lead hard trad, he could just go lead hard trad...
>Well he just has, on a route that has provided a far more hard trad experience
>than most of the hard trad things out there.
>
>>And I do think there's minimal point placing the gear on lead if you
>know all the gear and even have it racked up ready to go. it's not exactly
>the trad leading experience either.
>What are you talking about? Of course it is more effort if you have to
>lug up the gear and hang around to place it. It is a definite step-up from
>having it pre-placed, particularly as he is tackling a 55m 8b.
Go on, i've heard you argue that there's virtually no difference between toproping and placing the gear on lead in these circumstances!
I'm just
>surprised that you can call his ascent contrived, particularly given your
>own approach of leading 15m routes on pre-placed gear after top-roping
>them. As for the trad leading experience, I think Arnaud Petit is no stranger
>to trad having climbed around the world on some pretty adventurous routes.
>
I've always been very dubious of headpointing. Headpointing on routes that already have bolts in them seems particularly dumb. Which isn't to say that I don't think he's a very good climber and it's not impressive - he's remarkably calm and solid whilst miles run out in that vid. I work hard routes on preplaced gear because I'm a complete wuss. Working something so you can lead it on manky gear is something I have never understood - not when it was the norm here in the 80s, when it's on grit nor when it's to do a sport route without the bolts,
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7-Sep-2011 8:26:51 AM
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So in other words, you can top-rope the bejeezus of out of short, well-protected trad route and then pre-place all the gear in preparation for some sort of psuedo-lead experience. But if anyone else does anything that is an obvious step-up from what you do, then it is contrived?
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7-Sep-2011 8:29:31 AM
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It's taking my pointlessness to an entirely new level!
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7-Sep-2011 9:38:43 AM
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You notice at the end when they show the hand written topo that he gave it a E10 ?? grade. I thought that's a bit rich.
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7-Sep-2011 9:39:31 AM
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On 7/09/2011 Wendy wrote:
>It's taking my pointlessness to an entirely new level!
You seem to be quibbling about degrees of pointlessness in an already pointless activity (climbing). As countless* people have pointed out to me, and I am sure to everyone else, there's a good** road to the top of Arapiles.
* Countless as in "I couldn't be bothered counting them", not as in countable but infinite
** Good as in driveable, but not actually good
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7-Sep-2011 9:40:07 AM
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I can't believe people feel they need to belittle such an impressive ascent.
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7-Sep-2011 10:34:31 AM
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Once you post a video on something you are effectively inviting comment.....so are you saying Neil that you can only positive things? I can see were Wendy is coming from TBH, this sport is made up of stupid ethics/rules/guidelines that everyone views differently in terms of importance and the fact she thinks the ascent isn't that worthy is a reflection of her thoughts in it.....she dosn't have to think its a particularly worthy ascent if she dosn't want too...
....me personally, I dont really care, he can climb what he likes, how he likes...dosn't affect me or inspire me at all...kudos to him....but I wont be standing in line to help build a bronze statue of him or anything.
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7-Sep-2011 11:15:35 AM
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Totally contrived and magnificent. That's great climbing.
Wendy you seem to be arguing yourself into a blind alley. It sounds like you enjoy headpointing yourself. We simply adjust the amount of gear and practice to suit the chosen level of risk. It's all the same thing.
Matt, what E grade would you give it?
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7-Sep-2011 11:28:26 AM
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On 7/09/2011 chalkischeap wrote:
>Totally contrived and magnificent. That's great climbing.
I would think an ascent clipping bits of metal that had been pre-drilled on absiel would be a more contrived ascent personally.
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7-Sep-2011 11:30:53 AM
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On 7/09/2011 Fish Boy wrote:
>M9, those slings weren't girth hitched..
What's he done then?
Has he cut and retied the sling? Otherwise I don't see how to attach it the sling and end up with only 2 thicknesses.
[edit looking a few seconds earlier, there's only a single thickness of sling above that knot so it is just looped though the cam slings and tied off
Still, didn't KP do a bunch of tests of slings looped through slings and decide it was a bad idea?
[Edit: Maybe: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/de-ch/journal/mountain/all/qc-lab-extending-a-cam-sling-sling-on-sling-en-gb-en-eur ]
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7-Sep-2011 11:51:20 AM
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On 7/09/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>
>I would think an ascent clipping bits of metal that had been pre-drilled
>on absiel would be a more contrived ascent personally.
Agreed. We just make up pointless challenges for ourselves. That's why it's fun.
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7-Sep-2011 11:57:19 AM
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On 7/09/2011 chalkischeap wrote:
>Agreed. We just make up pointless challenges for ourselves. That's why
>it's fun.
He makes exactly that point at the end of the film.
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7-Sep-2011 1:20:47 PM
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Quit bitching and post videos, bitches.
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7-Sep-2011 1:51:58 PM
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Ok clarky, I thought we were talking about the thread he did...you win with your fancy skillz though!
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