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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 29
Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Grampians (General) (General) (General) [ Grampians Guide | Images ] 

Author
Weirs Creek access.

Duang Daunk
7-Oct-2018
10:28:45 PM
On 7-Oct-2018 ajfclark wrote:
>On 7-Oct-2018 mitch46and2 wrote:
>>Perhaps parks ahould make some effort towards education. A closed gate
>>could mean anything. How is anybody meant to be aware?? No signage, no
>>paper on the gate with a note, nothing. Oh, its been posted on that chockstone
>>forum that no one has looked at for 10 years
>
>The emu foot track closure has been on chockstone, cliffcare, the crag,
>I'm pretty sure it's in the most recent guidebook for Grampians and it
>was in the update PDF too. Park's road report lists it as closed.
>
>CliffCare: http://cliffcare.org.au/grampians/victoria-range/
>TheCrag: http://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/grampians/eureka-area
>Grampians Guide Updates: http://docs.google.com/document/d/1eaxJkrwJhzAwZP67ue2ZP9ps4ufeE
>PI5c2vYc0IKvw/edit
>Parks: http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/679605/Grampians_Road_Report
>pdf
>
>What more do you want? A TV campaign?
>
>Signs on the gate itself would be the most obvious, cheap, simple solution,
>but unfortunately, signs on gates seem to go walkabout for some reason,
>much like locked gates seem to end up magically unlocked, bypassed, smashed,
>etc. Another good example is the gate at the start of the Ravine track.

They missed out notifying the Feral 4WD Club, Lazy Bushwalkers Club and other such like Vandals Anonymous bro, ... not to mention the Illiterate Bouldering Society-
mitch46and2
7-Oct-2018
10:57:17 PM
Fair call. We stuffed up.

We were using simon carter/neil monteith book, 2016 i think. No mentuin of the track being permanently closed, apart from the second gate onwards. We deceided to check it out late the night before, had no phone reception so we couldnt have checked the crag if we wanted.

We met two other climbers on our walk back down. They said they had also seen the 4x4 track and thought about using it, i bring this up as if you werent aware of any permanent closure and saw the track and had a capable vehicle it seems like the logical choice. It looks like a parks track that has been there for years, not a dodgy cutting. Wouldnt suprise me if climbers have been using this access for a long time.
What does this mean for the climbing in the area? If the area around the access track is high in value than what of hillside and all those beautiful red roofs

antforknee
8-Oct-2018
2:20:59 AM
Hi Tracey.
Just re read the last line of your earlier post "That track isn't closed because of it's condition. There are cultural heritage concerns"
Sorry but could you please clarify... Is the area closed due cultural heritage concerns or just the track? If there are cultural heritage issues then should this should be update on all the places alf Clark listed? Otherwise some people may choose to walk in believing that they are still doing all the right things.
kieranl
8-Oct-2018
4:10:44 AM
On 8-Oct-2018 antforknee wrote:
>Hi Tracey.
>Just re read the last line of your earlier post "That track isn't closed
>because of it's condition. There are cultural heritage concerns"
>Sorry but could you please clarify... Is the area closed due cultural
>heritage concerns or just the track? If there are cultural heritage issues
>then should this should be update on all the places alf Clark listed?
>Otherwise some people may choose to walk in believing that they are still
>doing all the right things.

The track is closed, not the area. As I understand it the track provided ready access to cultural sites and having it closed provides a buffer space.
mitch46and2
8-Oct-2018
2:51:41 PM
where are the sites located? If the closed trak provides the buffer space, what are the specific areas they are trying to provide a buffer zone to?

ajfclark
Online Now
8-Oct-2018
3:32:40 PM
On 8-Oct-2018 mitch46and2 wrote:
>where are the sites located? If the closed trak provides the buffer space, what are the specific areas they are trying to provide a buffer zone to?

It's an awkward situation. They generally aren't publicised because some people like to destroy them, which makes it very hard to avoid going near them sometimes by accident.

kieranl
8-Oct-2018
3:34:55 PM
Some sites are located close to the track. My understanding is that the indigenous community doesn't wish the locations of cultural sites to be identified so I'm not going to be more specific.

Easy access to sites has often resulted in vandalism so I can see the point.

What are the consequences of this track being closed to climbers?

1. For four months of the year it will take an extra 30 or 40 minutes on foot to get to these climbing areas. If that's too long to walk for people then the areas could do with a break anyway.

2. For the remainder of the year it will take an extra 10 minutes on foot to get to these climbing areas. This assumes that 1 km through light bush takes about 10 minjutes to walk through.

It doesn't seem a lot really.
Access T CliffCare
8-Oct-2018
3:56:59 PM
On 8-Oct-2018 mitch46and2 wrote:
>where are the sites located? If the closed trak provides the buffer space,
>what are the specific areas they are trying to provide a buffer zone to?

Hi mitch46and2,

So a very quick outline on the original closure of the track. It was a request by Traditional Owners with regards to the known and publicised cultural heritage sites that were previously available to access/view by the public. The track closure wasn't directed specifically at climbers, which may be what people feel. It was to give more of a buffer zone to limit the amount of public and vehicles heading in there. Our discussions with PV after that was to discuss how we could come to an agreeement to lessen the walk in for climbers as such.
After the fires, and any kind of natural event, inspections always take place. Generally why they then find impacts both natural and otherwise, as well as new sites.
Those sites had some damage so even more sensitive. I was not privy to their actual conversations but I imagine it's about damage control.

Victoria Range in particular but not limited to, and cultural heritage is quite a complex situation given that there are humans that like to access the areas where it exists. And the more tricky situation where it is unknown to exist.

There are more conversations coming on this.

I know I said quick outline ;-/ but this conversation is much bigger than just this particular topic.
Questions and discussion are good. Communications on both sides are on the board for improvement.

Thanks for asking.
Access T CliffCare
8-Oct-2018
5:06:26 PM
On 8-Oct-2018 kieranl wrote:
>Some sites are located close to the track. My understanding is that the
>indigenous community doesn't wish the locations of cultural sites to be
>identified so I'm not going to be more specific.
>
>Easy access to sites has often resulted in vandalism so I can see the
>point.
*snip*

On 8-Oct-2018 ajfclark wrote:
*snip*
>It's an awkward situation. They generally aren't publicised because some people like to >destroy them, which makes it very hard to avoid going near them sometimes by >accident.

I just saw these responses - we were obviously writing at the same time :-)

Both of the above are also correct in this and other locations. As I noted, it is complex. It deserves conversation and solutions. I would like to think that coming up with solutions that protect cultural heritage - 'cos once it's gone, it's gone - and that take into account climbers responsible usage and values is something that can be achieved.

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There are 29 messages in this topic.

 

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