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General Climbing Discussion

Author

OK to use?

rolsen1

17-Jan-2011
9:56:26 AM

The two most active "god-bothers" have (ironically, but not unexpectedly) posted above in support of discriminatory language and behavior, I think you should be safe.


nmonteith

17-Jan-2011
9:59:34 AM

There is no clandestine group working behind the scenes. It's just individual votes.


Sabu

17-Jan-2011
10:26:37 AM

As I said, the predominant issue that relates to this forum is should such behaviour be moderated. I say no. This does not reflect my personal views about what I feel is offensive.

I say a firm no because simple commonsense can dictate what is appropriate to post on forums such as these. We are all adults, I am sure we can all regulate our own behaviour in accordance with what is socially appropriate without the need for specific rules about words deemed offensive.


nmonteith

17-Jan-2011
10:27:59 AM

Im intrigued to know from people who voted 'yes' on this poll if they would use these words in conversation with a gay person? This isnt a hypothetical as there are quite a few gay and lesbian members on this forum. ODH especially - how many gay friends do you have? And do you constantly refer to them as you refer to them on this forum? If not - why?


nmonteith

17-Jan-2011
10:30:49 AM

On 17/01/2011 Sabu wrote:
> We are all adults, I am sure we can all
>regulate our own behaviour in accordance with what is socially appropriate
>without the need for specific rules about words deemed offensive.

Ha! There is just so many warnings and emails us moderators can send out to certain people. They still don't get it.

One Day Hero

17-Jan-2011
10:42:45 AM

On 17/01/2011 nmonteith wrote:
ODH especially
>- how many gay friends do you have? And do you constantly refer to them
>as you refer to them on this forum? If not - why?

Ummm, none (that I know of). I don't run around in normal life trying to think of every nasty way to refer to gay people, I just got started on that cause you told me off a bit, and I was bored, and I thought a bit of the old 'free speech vs vilification' argument would be a fun distraction from the bolting stuff.....I'm over it now, will behave (for a bit)

One Day Hero

17-Jan-2011
10:52:16 AM

On 17/01/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>There is no clandestine group working behind the scenes. It's just individual
>votes.

I'm not some conspiracy nut..........bet Macca is though.

You've got 25 people voting to ban homophobic stuff (vs 30 voting not to) and you're ready to go with it.

I think that you're keen to back this one because you are sympathetic to the cause of gay rights.

The point I was trying to make is that Miguel and Dave H. might be able to get 25 votes together for team Jesus (is sabu on that bandwagon?). I believe that there is no way in hell you would support banning blasphemy on this site given the same circumstances. In other words, you are picking and choosing your oppressed minoritys rather than being an impartial believer in freedom from persecution.


nmonteith

17-Jan-2011
11:02:40 AM

Its in my best interests of sanity to not have to moderate or send warning emails. I'm not suggesting an automatic removal of this material but hope that people understand its not what we want to see on here.

climbingjac

17-Jan-2011
11:59:13 AM

On 17/01/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>Surely if almost half of the users find it offensive it shouldn't be allowed?

Agree with you 100% Neilio.

The free for all attitude is a bit naive imo... should a person be allowed to do whatever they please and say whatever they please? Not really... if everyone did whatever they pleased then murder and public beatings would be legal. There's a certain amount of decorum and respect for others that is surely due. It is the year 2011 after all...


climbertron

17-Jan-2011
12:40:59 PM

Isn't calling something negative gay the kind of thing high schoolers tend to do? It's kind of funny this forum has this problem

DanMac

17-Jan-2011
12:50:04 PM

On 17/01/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>Im intrigued to know from people who voted 'yes' on this poll if they would
>use these words in conversation with a gay person? This isnt a hypothetical
>as there are quite a few gay and lesbian members on this forum. ODH especially
>- how many gay friends do you have? And do you constantly refer to them
>as you refer to them on this forum? If not - why?

I do tend to use "gay" as a general negative term (e.g. drive all the way to the mountains, walk to the crag, half way up first route, starts raining. "This is hyper-gay" would be exclaimed without a second thought).
I suppose it is just habit from high-school days... I do have several gay friends and I speak the same around them, doesn't bother them at all. I don't see them as "different" so it's never been an issue... on the contrary, they tend to use the term "faggot" more often than I would!


Billie W

17-Jan-2011
1:37:30 PM

what a bizzare question....

Wendy

17-Jan-2011
3:18:11 PM

I find some of the responses bizarre too!

On 15/01/2011 Marssan wrote:
>So here goes. The question you are answering in this poll is:
>
>Is it OK to use "gay", "fag" or any of their derivatives eg. faggotry
>to describe something negative / lame / weak or undesirable on the Chocky
>forum.

I didn't read the question as a matter of free speech or of whether words should be moderated, marssan asks straight out if it's ok to use gay as a degoratory term. Which it unequivocally is not. If you take all discussion of moderating chocky out of the poll and more than 50% of respondants still choose yes the word is ok, i'm going into another one of those moments of depression on the state of the world.

And the discussion about self moderation - well we obviously haven't been doing enough because it's been brought up. Self moderation has to be practiced to work. I suspect that even when people haven't blocked ODH (which must lead to a bizzarely patchy forum at times!), we've all developed a bit of self blocking - ie, his blatant setting out to offend means you start to habitually ignore those bits and thus he isn't even succeeding in the effort to shock you anymore. What this can mean though, is that new or less regular users, or users who are particularly affected by his current theme of the moment, will be much more sensitive to it, but there is no doubt he posts some offensive drivel.

Anyway, in my world, using gay as a derogatory term is not OK , because in order to have any meaning, it relies on people accepting that to be gay is negative, weak etc etc. No amount of defending free speech will change that. I wouldn't at this stage to moderate it, purely because that puts more work on moderators already, but as users, maybe we need to look out for and speak up more about things. There are probably people here who've never thought what this use of gay actually meant. Now they're thinking about it. Maybe they'll stop using it. There is a world of difference between using gay as a term describing sexuality (which is common in queer circles) and as a derogatory term.

Wendy

17-Jan-2011
3:21:00 PM

On 17/01/2011 climbertron wrote:
>Isn't calling something negative gay the kind of thing high schoolers tend
>to do? It's kind of funny this forum has this problem

I had that impression too. Maybe people get back to preschool and get excited about poo, wee and bum now too.


nmonteith

17-Jan-2011
3:24:27 PM

...and can I say once more - if people find something offensive and don't want to post a reply on the forum - please contact me via a personal message or email! Sometimes things slip under our moderator noses.

climbingjac

17-Jan-2011
5:57:26 PM

The internet is a very powerful communication tool. It can be used for good things or bad things. At the end of the day, what we are really talking about here is whether we really want Chocky to allow members to be derogatory towards a person/demographic simply because the person whose company they adore most happens to be of the same gender. For heavens sake let people get on with the business of being happy. It's 2011. Can't even believe that this conversation is being had, really. I'd rather see Chocky used for good communication.

martym

17-Jan-2011
7:38:09 PM

On 17/01/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>Im intrigued to know from people who voted 'yes' on this poll if they would
>use these words in conversation with a gay person? This isnt a hypothetical
>as there are quite a few gay and lesbian members on this forum.

Is it ok to use "redneck, hillbilly, ignorant yobbo" etc. as a derogatory term, even though most of the people here would never say it in person when confronted by such behaviour?

Seriously, there are quite a few rednecks and yokels on this forum; many of whom have probably voted on this poll.


Miguel75

17-Jan-2011
11:50:41 PM

On 17/01/2011 rolsen1 wrote:
>The two most active "god-bothers" have (ironically, but not unexpectedly)
>posted above in support of discriminatory language and behavior, I think
>you should be safe.

Sorry, I think I've missed the ironing rolsen1. I do believe I've stated plainly that I am against bigotry of all kinds. In both posts I have merely stated that I am pro freedom of speech and all that goes with it; the good, the bad and the ugly (and the "God-Botherering")

What I find interesting is that while I have never called anyone a name here on Chocky, (except for one nastyish reply to a post of 'rightarmband's') or written a post including derogatory, obscene or rude comments, I'm singled out as a supporter of discrimination and bigotry; and labelled a god botherer to boot.

It is what it is and I like Chocky, and rational discussions, all the more for it.


Miguel75

17-Jan-2011
11:57:07 PM

On 17/01/2011 nmonteith wrote:
>There is no clandestine group working behind the scenes. It's just individual
>votes.

Guess again Neil. We're hard at work converting the faithless and taking over Chocky.... one poor soul at a time!

rolsen1

18-Jan-2011
7:54:56 AM

On 17/01/2011 Miguel75 wrote:
>On 17/01/2011 rolsen1 wrote:
>>The two most active "god-bothers" have (ironically, but not unexpectedly)
>>posted above in support of discriminatory language and behavior, I think
>>you should be safe.
>
>Sorry, I think I've missed the ironing rolsen1. I do believe I've stated
>plainly that I am against bigotry of all kinds. In both posts I have merely
>stated that I am pro freedom of speech and all that goes with it; the good,
>the bad and the ugly (and the "God-Botherering")
>
>What I find interesting is that while I have never called anyone a name
>here on Chocky, (except for one nastyish reply to a post of 'rightarmband's')
>or written a post including derogatory, obscene or rude comments, I'm singled
>out as a supporter of discrimination and bigotry; and labelled a god botherer
>to boot.
>
>It is what it is and I like Chocky, and rational discussions, all the
>more for it.
>

Sorry Miguel, I was simply replying to ODH's concerns about Christians starting polls to remove anti-christian references from chocky. "God Botherer" was ODH's word, I only quoted it and I even misspelled it. Sorry I neglected to quote his post more obviously.

I assumed from both yours and Sabu's post that you voted "Yes" to the poll. I can see the "irony" in this, even if you can't.

As for "singling you out", both you and Sabu have openly talked about your faith on here, you have "singled out" yourself. The posts both of you make will be associated with your beliefs (and your religion) by many every time you post, if you didn't want this then you shouldn't have discussed your beliefs on chocky.

For the record, I have both gay and christian friends and I wouldn't write or behave on here any differently than I would when I was with them. Also, for the record I voted "No"

There are 75 messages in this topic.