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General Climbing Discussion

 Page 5 of 9. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180

6:07:19 PM
So why doesn't someone just pull the bolts and we can forget Boganville ever existed?

7:05:36 PM
Despite all the crap that has happened, the crag is actually bloody excellent!
I wonder whether all of this would have happened if Martin had stayed at home in Austria last Christmas?
7:21:28 PM
On 7/05/2010 rodw wrote:
>On 7/05/2010 Estey wrote:
>>I also think you could actually get more satisfaction fixing up a long
>>route into something people will climb rather than putting up something
>>of lesser quality. Each to their own.

I think Mikl fixing up Noblesse oblige is a great example of this. He sorted out a climb that had had very few repeats in 20 (??) years and now everyone it seems has been on it or has it on their list. BTW Well done Mikl an co.
>Easier said than done, the politics in rebolting can be fierce..just look
>at many a chocky thread on the subject....alot easier to setup up new routes
>sometimes than putting up with that BS.

Obviosly it was much easier being his own route. But what happens when all the old F.A pass on?
7:28:46 PM
You get a consensus from the climbing community

9:33:49 PM
Now that does make me laugh......lololololol hehehehehe
9:41:28 PM
I have no conection to the area but found this thread a very interesting read.
I have one question. Where did phm disappear to?
9:58:32 PM
On 9/05/2010 lad wrote:
>I have no conection to the area but found this thread a very interesting
>I have one question. Where did phm disappear to?

Only the tough survive on this forum.

The good Dr
8:41:18 AM
The obvious reason that we have not heard peep from the gent in question is contained in the following ditty.

I'm So Ronery
So ronery
So ronery and sadry arone

There's no one
Just me onry
Gluing ringbolts into the stone
I climb rearry hard and make new route prans
But the editor don't ristens, he don't understand
When we ask for him to give us moneeey

And so I'm ronery
A rittle ronery
Poor rittle me

There's no climbers
I can rerate to
Feel rike a hex at the 'wave'
It's kinda sihry
But not rearry
Because I'm fihring my posts up with rage

I'm the smartest most crever most physicarry fit
But guidebook editors don't rearize it
When I write the guide maybe they'll notice me
But until then I'rr just be ronery
Rittle ronery, give me moneeey

I'm so ronery

9:13:50 AM

9:26:51 AM
PHM's ideals about bolting can be effectively compared and contrasted to the Dr's "Hexes at the wave" simile.

9:58:43 AM
On 10/05/2010 BundyBear wrote:
>Does anyone have Rod Young's details so I can send an invoice before the
>new Nowra guide comes out..

Get in the queue buddy. Rod already owes Rick about $10k.

10:06:31 AM
Do you get more money for stars as well???...that 5 star system not looking like such a good idea now eh?

Eduardo Slabofvic
10:14:05 AM
Since I don't put bolts in, I can't really make a claim. But as I do trad new routes, does that mean I can get a new rack?
10:35:07 AM
On 10/05/2010 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>Since I don't put bolts in, I can't really make a claim. But as I do trad
>new routes, does that mean I can get a new rack?

Only if you leave your gear in so I can 'pink point' it. oh, then I get to booty your gear.
11:32:38 AM
Can we also invoice for re-bolting work? - No glory - so should be able to charge even more for this thankless job

1:51:49 PM
Wow, talk about making a bigwall out of a boulder . . .
And I think everyone may actually be a little off route, legally speaking . . .
The issue here is copyright. The original writer of the route description would probably hold copyright for their text, so it depends how they license it - whilst the bolter would own copyright of the physical work ie the 'sculpture' or route; and with this protection against people duplicating the route (including making representations of the crux move on your woody). I'm not sure how photography is dealt with. . .
So I think we would need to look at some of these factors to resolve the issue.
It is kinda like arts/music law - the route is a song, so it depends whether the route description is issued as part of the routes release or is a 'press release' advertising the route? Of course journo's write reviews of routes - I mean songs, and they get away with all sorts of shit and go to great partys too . . .
I guess re-bolting is like your 're-mix' song; which is ever-so-popular now so it is surprising there's not more re-bolting going on. I guess you just need the perfect 'pop' route and a good video with well choreographed crux sequence, a good publicist and an excellent lawyer. Either that or you just have to wait until they come up with 'So You Think You Can Bolt' and avoid paying you dues.
Hmm might have to research this a bit more . . .
Sorry to digress . . .

Eduardo Slabofvic
2:42:16 PM
On 10/05/2010 Macciza wrote:
>Sorry to digress . . .

Very good points. To gather some threads - God created the earth - therefore God created the route - therefore God holds the intellectual property rights to the route. The Man made in Godís image (because we all know that women were made out of Adamís rib and are only here to temp the righteous man) then bolts the route without the express permission of God Ė God then invents corrosion as a way of chopping (as God supposedly moves in mysterious ways (as evidenced by the figure 4 move)) thus ensuring that Man may die if it is Godís will, and no doubt end up in Hell for the not doing the route trad in the first place Ė as God is definitely a beard stroker.

I hope this clears everything up.
Richard Delaney
3:09:32 PM
Hey macca - nice points however I think a walking track might lend more similarities as...
all considerations of route ownership and copyright will fall apart once it is established that the new-router did not have permission to butcher the rock in the first place.

Loads of people write walking track notes/descriptions/maps etc and they wouldn't dream of thinking that they "owned" the rights to all subsequent descriptions of the track. If they're really lucky, their chosen track name might stick through common use...


4:08:31 AM
IANAL, but you can't copyright facts. So any guidebook that sticks to the facts ("OverBoltedChossyPieceOfShit, grade 28, 20m, 24 ring bolts to double ring bolt lower off") won't run into these kinds of issues.

I was informed of this by a certain litigious Victarctican publishing empire.
3:25:21 PM
On 10/05/2010 The good Dr wrote:
>I'm so ronery....

Hahaha! The imagery that little ditty conjures up brings tears to my eyes. Absolutely priceless!

I'm starting to wonder if this all isn't just a clever marketing ploy by Martin, designed to ensure maximum interest in Boganville and to drive guidebook sales through the roof.

So anyway, here's a little update.

Yesterday I had the pleasure of signing off the printers final proofs. They look great. Well, when I say great, there were a couple of last minute "authorís corrections" that needed to be made but I won't bore you all with the details.

So not long now. The printing plates are now being made. The presses roll on Thursday then next week is binding and shipping. That means we'll have ze goods at the end of next week or soon after. We'll do distribution immediately so it'll be in shops sometime in the week of 24th May.

I hope people enjoy the book. Cheers!


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