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General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 9. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180
10:19:23 PM
@hipster - Bullying is exactly how it was described to me. ‘Give me the info or else’.

And no – quite clearly, this thread is not about me and my ancient problems with Simon.

And since you ask: No, I did not ask for money. I asked for bolts to support new routing which in turn supports new guide books. But again, this is not what this thread is about.
10:31:25 PM
@egosan – Even if your impression was right, and my friends were just a mob of prima donnas, does that mean that they can be treated in the described way? I would argue ‘no’. If a mob of prima donnas puts in the work and cash necessary to create a place like Boganville, then these prima donnas deserve a say about how and when the info gets published.

And coming to think of it: isn’t it usually the people that are perceived as prima donnas that get bullied? And is bullying a prima donna any better than bullying anyone else?

10:34:07 PM
I really don't think guidebooks are a real money earner, given the amount of time that needs to be put into it and what remains after the printing costs...

Poor form to ask for bolts. If you want to bolt, do it for the what ever reasons you choose. But to expect to be subsidised, why would you expect that when the rest of us who put up new routes pay for it ourselves? We aren't in France last time I checked, and there the councils contribute not the guidebook authors.

Guidebooks are necessary, even if no new routes are put up in the Blue Mountains. Climbing is popular, guidebooks go out of print, people want to improve on whats available. Your new routes are not necessarily the main driving force for new guidebooks.
10:34:41 PM
Still haven't answered the question, matie.

What did your mates ask for? What respect or terms do you refer to?

Correct our assumptions, phm.

10:38:41 PM
On 5/05/2010 phm wrote:
>Enter commerce. There is this guy he wants to make a buck. Nothing wrong with
>that of course.
Yep guide book writing's hugely lucrative you only have to look to Simey and his palatial mansion, fast cars and even faster women, he'll never have to work again.
If you put up routes on public rock you don't own them, if you choose not tell anyone the grade, style etc who gives a f*ck. Terms? Here are my terms the rock is everyone's take your (friend's) ownership attitude and shove it...

11:00:27 PM
On 5/05/2010 phm wrote:
>@hipster - Bullying is exactly how it was described to me. ‘Give me the
>info or else’.

Or else what? He has to make up the names and grades? Big deal. It's not much of a threat. Everyone else doing new routes in oz at the moment seems to be filling them into the aca database in real time. Check out hot spots such as new nowra for a more friendly version of new route publishing.

dave h.
11:06:30 PM
Seems I just can't resist controversy at the moment...

It seems to me that we do consider it good form to respect the work of someone who puts up a new route. For instance, if Climber X bolts a new line and puts a bit of tat through the first bolt, we accept that Climber X wishes to have the FA of the line and consider that this is fair enough. But obviously this has limits... If X takes years to send and isn't working on it, then someone else understandably feels that it's OK for them to take a shot at it.

Unless the terms of the developers are incredibly unreasonable for whatever reason, I think it'd be nice to respect the work that they've put in by complying with their wishes.

But it all depends on what exactly their terms are.

11:30:35 PM
what a complete load of whinging drivel.
i hear this sort of stuff from my 8 year old neices.

quite frankly the amount of attention you have aroused is embarassing.
it is just a cliff wall amongst hundreds of others in the blue mountains.

who gives a whoop de doo if someone gives routes a different name. 1 year from now all will be forgotten and it will be just another crag. you will have moved onto to something else to whinge about.

your friends terms i suggest should only be;
Please Mr Carter, put this crag into your new guide. we have worked really hard to produce a great area and would love to have our names next to our routes in 'our ' crag.

if there are routes of grade 32, surely you have had ample time to get it ready for 'public access'....
the blue mountains is full of great crags and routes already i don't think that this crag could really add anything to the area. i doubt very much it is like Ceuse or Taipan!!!

the only losers are you for appearing like a half wit and your mates for not accepting a golden opportunity to have their routes and names listed in what appears to be a all time must have guide book.

as derek hinch once said, shame, shame, shame......

Chuck Norris
11:31:16 PM
Despite how moronic and self important you and your mates come across as, I cannot help but respect your lack of shame in naming a crag after yourselves.

1:32:02 AM
10 posts later and still no answer to egosan's question:

On 5/05/2010 egosan wrote:
>What did your mates ask for? What respect or terms do you refer to?

phm, what are these mysterious "terms" that your good friends are asking for?
9:14:09 AM
So your friends put up grades from 20 to 32.
Did they acquire the skills to climb and bolt routes to this level by riding on the backs of every other crag developer before them?
I think YES they did.
What if all theit predecessors kept their routes and descriptions hidden?
And I don't see Simey living the high life of the rich and famous on the profits of his guide books.
Quality guide books are time consuming and expensive to produce.
Tell your friends to build a bridge and get over it.
9:24:48 AM
Maybe they are after some Ali G style rrrrrespect! aaye
9:31:59 AM
I have been on both sides in the past.
Putting in a lot of work gives one a feeling of ownership, whatever the reality.
And secret crags are fun.
And dragging information out of people for a guide is a lot more work than people realise.
And Simon sometimes rubs people up the wrong way.
But eventually every crag becomes either forgotten or un-secret.
Sounds like Boganville has reached the 'un-secret' point, like it or not.
Winston Smith
9:43:50 AM
On 6/05/2010 grangrump wrote:

>But eventually every crag becomes either forgotten or un-secret.
>Sounds like Boganville has reached the 'un-secret' point, like it or not.

So where is it?
Richard Delaney
9:50:18 AM
... so how many bolts/hours do we owe Ewbank, Penny, and Law?
9:55:55 AM
On 6/05/2010 pmonks wrote:
>10 posts later and still no answer to egosan's question:
>On 5/05/2010 egosan wrote:
>>What did your mates ask for? What respect or terms do you refer to?
>phm, what are these mysterious "terms" that your good friends are asking

I second this call, what are the terms that the publisher finds so unreasonable to meet?
If you provide us with the terms and we find that they are, in fact, quite reasonable then perhaps a great deal of anguish can be avoided and we can all chime in and throw our support behind them and call for said bully to stop. By all your convenient answering of other questions yet not this one, it appears to me more and more that they don't have "reasonable" terms for withholding the information...

9:58:42 AM
Here is my terms.

How about you and your mates just climb the 30 routes at Bogansville and never venture out to other crags. And I will climb the other 10,000 routes in the blues but never go to Bogansville.
10:00:23 AM
On 6/05/2010 Richard Delaney wrote:
>... so how many bolts/hours do we owe Ewbank, Penny, and Law?
I think claw's modern bolting is more a penance for his underbolted undergraded chosspile sandbags of yesteryear. I also think he has a long way to go with routes like Ordinary Route

He he he

10:04:33 AM
Had an idea. If you are looking at cash for routes I can deal with that - how about I pay you guys $300 - $10 a route. As soon as you pay Mikl $15 000 and about that amount again to Montieth, Penney, Bradbury, Stacy, Cosseys, Cameron, Moon, etc.

10:16:29 AM
So, I hear the guide is already at the printers... is boganville included or not?

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