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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

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The official stoked thread!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30-Nov-2009
2:47:15 PM
On 29/11/2009 bl@ke wrote:
>Stoked i led Yedonba Wall using only the bolts!

There is more than one route there that has bolts.
If it was the one you and I did a short while back, and you did it sans pro in the upper half / crack portion*, then you are definitely getting your headspace together for bolder or more runout climbing; ... and would have no trouble leading Noblesse Oblige this season at Buffalo!

(*Not many people do; and those that do ~> generally free-solo the whole route!)

IdratherbeclimbingM9
30-Nov-2009
4:42:08 PM
On 30/11/2009 bl@ke wrote:
>I tried to put in a nut at the start of the crack but it was to uniform to get anything good in so i took it out and just went for it.

You need to work on your gear placing skills then. If you remember our ascent, I built a three or four piece belay there and did not use any slcds in it!

>Would Noblesse Oblige be much harder than yedonba wall?

No, but it has fewer gear placement options. It has been retro'd by the first ascentionists and now has two or three bolts (brackets included) per pitch.

>Next time i think ill try solo it but take up a rope and bolt plates
>incase i change my mind, and so i can let Mum second.

If you take the gear, then it makes sense to use it, especially if you have company who is capable of belaying and following your lead.
;-)
Wendy
30-Nov-2009
5:59:07 PM
On 30/11/2009 bl@ke wrote:
> Next time i think ill try solo it but take up a rope and bolt plates
>incase i change my mind, and so i can let Mum second.

Are you telling us you'd not only pointlessly solo something whilst carrying the gear you'd use to protect it anyway, but that you'd do that in front of your mother?????
egosan
30-Nov-2009
6:33:30 PM
Wendy is right.

My sister was a ski racer. My mom was watching her train when she blew out in to the
trees at 70kph. Paramedics, Helicopters, and men standing around a still shape in the
trees looking grim. My sister got off with a broken back and 6 months of rehab, she was
the lucky one. My poor mother on the other hand...

Don't do it in front of your mother, mate.
paz
30-Nov-2009
7:55:59 PM
On 30/11/2009 bl@ke wrote:
>I wouldnt see it as a pointless solo either.

Carrying gear on a harness and rope while soloing isn't pointless, rather quite dangerous...

On a different note, after mellowing and talking about going climbing in the Pines for far too
long, finally arrived via the Kiwi's to Canadian knee deep Revelstoke powder....Fcking
incredibly stoked, especially with rent only $300 a month...
And stoked on BC smoke aswell.....
egosan
30-Nov-2009
9:07:05 PM
Blake,

On soloing with gear on:
Climbing is choosing to take risks. Soloing is choosing to take much bigger risks.
Soloing with a rack and rope on is taking even greater risks. You unbalance your body
and your mind when you have that gear on. Either could be fatal. If and when you do
solo, commit to it fully. Any doubt you have will be your undoing.

On soloing with your mom:
You are correct you need someone there to get help after you deck. I realize you are
under age and no reasonable adult would condone any soloing on your part. If only
because of the liability of being a responsible adult party to the death or maiming of of a
minor. That leaves you with underage friends or your mom to watch your back. Neither
are good answers, Blake. Think hard about how much you trust your friends to act
responsibly in an emergency. Think hard about what it would do to your mom to see
you deck and bubble the last air from your lungs.

Barring any horrific accidents, you will have a long long climbing career. You don't have
to hurry. Be patient, be deliberate, Blake. Climbing and Soloing by extension are not
things you do just because....

Here you go Blake. Read up:
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/wfeature-solo-honnold
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/wfeature-solo-vidal
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/wfeature-solo-lacelle
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/wfeature-solo-huber
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08x/wfeature-solo-steph-davis
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=868

Take care mate,
Sol

egosan
30-Nov-2009
10:40:13 PM
Godspeed, Blake. I imagine we have another TR coming. Stoked.
daave
1-Dec-2009
7:13:23 AM
Whoooooohoooooooo.

Stoked that I got 3 d's and an HD for my uni subjects this semester :)


BoulderBaby
1-Dec-2009
11:02:11 AM
I'm freekin stoked as I just saw the Asgard project, and it was Ahmazing.

evanbb
1-Dec-2009
11:20:51 AM
Stoked that Tony 'People Skills' Abbott has just taken the reins of the Liberal party. What fun!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1-Dec-2009
11:42:21 AM
Hmm. bl@ke has touched on some deeper issues recently on this thread.

This is the top of the climb in question.


On 30/11/2009 bl@ke wrote:
>I wouldnt see it as a pointless solo either.

I did not see the post/s the above quote came from due the context has since been deleted..., however coupled with;
On 30/11/2009 bl@ke wrote:
>i understand all the risks with soloing and all that stuff but i intend on taking a rope and gear so i can then belay Ma up. I dont plan on becoming the next Dan Osman i just think this neat little route that would be a fun little solo. And i say gear like a few nuts and a couple of bolt plates. I dont see soloing this climb as something a have to give lots of respect to, it still needs a degree of respect but i think i need to face it with some confidence. Thanks for the concern but i regret mentioning the stupid idea now. Ill let you know how it goes....

I have the following comments.

It is sage advice given by others above.

All solo demands geat respect by the doer of the deed.
If it is high enough to fall off then it is high enough to hurt yourself or die, no matter how 'easy' it is considered to be.
The older I get, ... the more I respect the 'easy stuff', as I have heard of too many accidents happening on such ground and have had a number of close calls myself.
As an aside, I also know of deaths and severe injuries suffered by home-handy-persons falling off step ladders etc!

The climb in question is relatively easy, and I personally regard the start of it as the most likely place to suffer injury, due to being a little bit techy-style of slabbing, with a potential bad landing. This is the case regardless of whether one is roped up or free soloing till the first bolt is reached ...

The points others make about soloing with gear on are interesting.
As a fairly regular practitioner of 'back-roped soloing' (the middle ground between free-solo and climbing with a partner), I tend to think differently, but do see the point about commitment to task and the potential for gear to interfere with that rather than help.

It is true that this climb is easily protected with minimal gear, but if doing it with gear, then my advice is to do it well in that style. Minimalist gear sometimes has a place in climbing, but if the purpose is to have fun, then doing it safely should be a high priority. It is not the amount of gear so much as the mindset that it is used with. Equally bad is reliance on gear that may not be optimal in their placement/s.

Soloing is a selfish activity. The reasons for doing it are personal.
It is best to clearly identify these things and the motives for it, that way the effect on others is hopefully considered before the act. Soloing in the presence of loved ones is definitely blurring the line and is inconsiderate of them in my opinion; … unless discussed beforehand with them and they agree (willingly), to it.

Climbing is pointless and soloing more so*(!) in the greater scheme of things. Understanding the risks is a different game when one is a teenager compared to when one is an old fart due to different life perspectives!
I am not saying don't do it, but I am saying to consider the rewards vs the risks and try not to involve others, unless they feel their own need to be involved for whatever reason…

(*It is an interesting mind game, but the same feelings can be achieved to an extent while on a roped-lead, so one does not need to 'needlessly' pursue solo for its own sake).
Wendy
1-Dec-2009
6:32:11 PM
Didn't mean to sound harsh, Blake! I realise that there are people who like to talk about soloing being the purest form of climbing and so on so forth, but it takes some serious consideration of whether it is really worth the risk. I personally don't think so. I fell off a cliff many years ago because a path collapsed. It gave me a new respect for freak events. Even if you feel completely confident on a climb (and saying you have the gear in case you change your mind doesn't suggest that) you might break rock, get stung by a bee, swooped by birds, be scared by a spider, have a sudden growth spurt or very early stroke, have a revelation from the big fish in the sky or a visitation from mars. I hate seeing people solo. I leave. I'd rather not be around to witness the results of anything going wrong.

Soloing does seem pointless with a rope and gear. It is meant to be about freedom and lack of encumbrance isn't it? So what does one gain out of soloing when one carries everything that one would do when leading it?

Have you checked out the video in the wierd gear thread?

BoulderBaby
1-Dec-2009
6:50:22 PM
Don't solo, it's not stanage.
Hehe. If you're gonna belay her up, can't you teach her to belay you?

gordoste
1-Dec-2009
7:27:27 PM
For all the other guys on this thread who are giving well-intentioned advice to Blake, on this climb the difference between leading it and soloing is not very much as the crux is before the first bolt (like Rod said). So therefore you could figure that the seconder has already agreed to that level of risk.


Taking a few wires and a sling when you're soloing is definitely a good idea in my book as a just-in-case measure, but it does mean you have to put on a harness and the experience is not quite the same.


Blake - It sounded before like you said you'd carry a rope up which probably struck most people as a bit strange. I think it would be much more enjoyable to leave the rope at the top and throw it down to your second.


I reckon good on you - but make sure your Mum is OK with it first. And that's not just because it's your mother. If you started soloing in front of me without telling me that you were going to, I'd be pretty pissed off. It's about giving people a choice in something that can potentially affect them (severely).
jacq
1-Dec-2009
7:40:39 PM
Hey Blakey, Ma here. And no, I dont intend to give you anymore advice/grief.

It is hard for a mum to have her "baby" pursue a dangerous sport, although I think climbing is much safer than hooning aroung town with drunk mates in some kids car on a saturday night. Blake is and has been a careful climber and I have seldom seen a young man with more enthusiasm for a sport/activity/hobby, so i am very glad to help him pursue his passion.

Having said that, you just aren't going to die or get hurt when you are 16 - I dont think you can even imagine it at that age, so I "guide" when I can and I do rely and appreciate everyone on chockstone's advice and help with Blake's learning (Sorry to talk about you in the third person Stinky!)

I suspect the soloing idea came from the sense that this particular climb is not too steep and you could almost walk up it (and that is coming from a pretty ordinary climber like me). Of course you would really really hurt yourself (at least) if you fell all the same. Shitty slabby granite is damn hard to fall on! (I haven't come across too many soft rocks come to think of it...)

So coming from someone who has spent many years working with adolescents, I wish I knew how to encourage a healthy sense of "I might die/hurt myself" doing this... but I do know that the encouragement and positive messages that we get on Chockstone does help a lot.

Thanks everyone. Jacq. (Ma!)

egosan
1-Dec-2009
7:49:57 PM
So...... Stinky, run away now. This thread is going to haunt you for years.

Take care,
Sol
J.C.
1-Dec-2009
8:11:32 PM
On 1/12/2009 jacq wrote:
>So coming from someone who has spent many years working with adolescents,
>I wish I knew how to encourage a healthy sense of "I might die/hurt myself"
>doing this...

And coming from someone who has not long finished being an adolescent for many years, I found an awareness of mortality in my earlier days only through a healthy & consistent exposure to dodgy situations (not unlike many others here, I'm sure), primarily via soloing lots of things that I really shouldn't have.
Funnily enough, having more than a few friends die through my teen years didn't seem to affect my invincibility, it was only after a while of doing it (& loving the close calls in a reasonably but not entirely un-reckless way) & somehow surviving long enough to grow up a little that imminent death started to strike a less glorious chord.

Disclaimer/Note for 'Stinky': While I'm glad that I DID inhale, I do NOT endorse or encourage soloing. Find your own feet, but try not to splat in the process.
Wendy
2-Dec-2009
8:12:15 AM
Hi Jacq, There's more than a few of us here who were somewhat mad 16 yo climbers once. We all survived assorted stupidity though I wonder how in hindsight sometimes! But climbing did divert me from a whole bunch of the other things that teenagers could get caught up in and gave me a lifelong obsession that I think is in general a pretty healthy one, that has taken me to amazing places and met great people, and I wouldn't change it for the world. My mother's happy about it too (although I only managed to ever get her up 3m of a grade 3 :() - i think it makes a difference when people actually come out and see how it all works and dispell the "high risk" image of climbing - but she was relieved when I decided that mountaineering wasn't my thing! Hopefully we'll catch you out at the Mt one day too.

And Bl@ke - was the user name "Stinky" already taken? ;)

evanbb
2-Dec-2009
8:33:59 AM
On 2/12/2009 Wendy wrote:
>lifelong obsession that I think is in general a pretty healthy one...

Apart from a few injuries here and there Wendy?

I admit though, I've always excluded injuries in 'healthy'.
jacq
2-Dec-2009
8:49:55 AM
Hey Stinky, sorry to give your nickname away! :) I think it's going to stick!

I agree Wendy, and I thnk I would class rock climbing as 'healthy" too - pulled enough teenagers out of car crashes and out of pools of their own puke! That's more "normal" but in no way healthy. It's all relative I guess!

As this is the stoked thread - I AM stoked that Blake is a budding rock climber, and that I have discovered it too - albeit a little late. But better late than never. My mother died a slow, horrible death in a nursing home - I'm not going to waste a minute of my life being old and boring, and there is no way I'm going to rot in a nursing home either!

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