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Open Projects ??


Donut King

1-Oct-2003
9:04:39 AM

what about boulder problems?

;-)

dk


climbau

2-Oct-2003
12:36:21 PM

Yeah, Boulder probs in theory deserve the same respect. However bouldering tends to be more social than roped climbing and some may therefore see all boulder projects as open slather. My concern is how do you denote a boulder project? It is not as easy to mark a problem as a project, I mean does one scrawl "PROJECT" across the the boulder or do you tape over the holds you intend to use? None of these actions would look good for the bouldering community as they are quite visual signposts and non-climbers would be very unhappy at what they may percieve as vandalism/graffiti. A bolted or trad route when done properly can be very inconspicuous by comparison.
By the way I reckon a trad route should be treated exactly the same as a bolted route. For example- you could place a wire and red tape it or a piece of knotted cord in a crack or tied around a chickenhead.

Am I on the wrong track? Let me know.

Andrew


IdratherbeclimbingM9

14-Oct-2003
9:31:39 AM

I have not heard of anyone 'reserving' a trad climb as a project.
I doubt it would be possible at many locations, particularly on major cliff or multipitch lines as it would be too easy to simply climb around that section and link in higher if it also was a natural line of ascent.

Many locations have wandering lines and as a bit of a romantic/historical (read prehistoric?) sort, I sometimes feel miffed (self imposed) if I find myself off-route when I have set out to repeat a historical line!

Mike aluded to a bit of anarchy potential and I think it happens probably more than we realise.

I find it intrigueing that on multipitch lines people put up a variation and in some places this becomes known as a new route name etc, when in fact its just a variation. I reckon that type of line should be recorded as such (eg LH variant of pitch 3), unless the climb is a girdle traverse.

My thanks also to the bolters out there, as I have enjoyed some of the easier routes they have made.

A side thought is that a line of bolts can help the unimaginative work out where to go!

Reserving boulder projects ?
Seems to me this is less possible than reserving trad projects. About the only way it might happen is with a degree of local concensus, but at popular locations I'd say your joking if you think it will work.

Chris, if you can accomplish the 3 feats mentioned earlier in the thread in 30 minutes then my advice to you is to 'take time to smell the roses lad' (enjoy the moments as they are all too fleeting, ... even an hour is too short a time! :)

Peter

15-Oct-2003
1:18:07 AM

Im working a project off and on that does not look like it has been climbed. There are no bolts, and FA placements, I am toproping it at the moment, but if I can work the last couple of moves, I would like to bolt and claim it. How do I find out if it has had an FA?
How do I arrange to bolt it if I have never bolted before without stuffing it up?

Comment to Donut King, you cant have a personal opinion if you are not a person. If you are too scared of people knowing who you are, dont post crap.

Peter

See y'all on Saturday


nmonteith

15-Oct-2003
9:18:47 AM

Email me offline - i should be able to find some details for you. I can also arrange some free bolting training if that is what you need.

Dalai

15-Oct-2003
9:28:22 AM

BA is the font of knowledge on climb's done around the state. Email him with the details and he should be able to tell you whether the climb was already done.

Neil will teach you well on the bolting if it's still awaiting the FA.

Peter

15-Oct-2003
9:04:04 PM

Thanks Dalai, will do


Donut King

16-Oct-2003
1:56:34 PM

Hi Peter,

yes...i am scared to reveal my name.....but i am a person

On 15/10/2003 Peter wrote
>If you are too scared of people knowing who you are, dont post crap.

do you mean that if i use my "real name" then i can post crap without offending you?

>How do I arrange to bolt it if I have never bolted before without stuffing it up?

what an excellent question, how about leave it for someone who knows what they are doing ,like Neil, in fact he has said he will offer his services for a fee, so pay him and make your "claim" to glory.

I value your opinion so very much. thankyou for your comments....next customer please.

dk

Peter

20-Oct-2003
10:35:49 PM

Hey DK, its funny how a sharp comment provokes a response.

But to answer your question, and in my opinion, yes, ownership of a statement or view deserves respect, to heckle from the back of the room does not.

On the climb, I have writen to BA offline to find out if somebody may have FA'd it, if it doesnt look like its been climbed I think I will ask Neil if he will bolt it for me so that if Im lucky to do another, I can then do it myself. I am of the other camp, I think that climbing ethics of old should be respected and passed on to us new climbers, just think they evolved by word of mouth uncallenged for so long, I know I am in no position to change them.

Peter

Contrary to popular belief, I am a real person too!

kieranl

20-Oct-2003
10:51:53 PM

DK gets the respect that he deserves. If he isn't prepared to identify himself then his opinion means nothing.


Donut King

21-Oct-2003
9:05:55 AM

On 20/10/2003 kieranl wrote:
>DK gets the respect that he deserves. If he isn't prepared to identify
>himself then his opinion means nothing.
>

kieranl,

we know your name and you get the respect you deserve.

to say that you know someones name and ipso facto they have your respct is (to me at least) bizzare...
really its time to move on....whats in a name...get over it.

Mr King


Donut King

21-Oct-2003
10:03:13 AM

On 20/10/2003 Peter wrote:
>Hey DK, its funny how a sharp comment provokes a response.

did you expext otherwise?

>But to answer your question, and in my opinion, yes, ownership of a statement
>or view deserves respect, to heckle from the back of the room does not.

I'll move further to the front next time.

Peter, i'm no heckler, and I'm all for climbing "ethics", indeed that is where my point lies. It is IMHO, unethical to make a claim to a peice of cliff face for an *extended period* on the basis that you've put in some bolts and whatever else. Now as to the actual time of the "extended period" required to complete the climb...how long should this be.. 3 months, 6 months....2-3 years?
Each to their own on this point (as we have seen). we have seen in the past (isolated) incidents of people vandelising the rock (smashing holds etc) cos someone gazumped them on "their" climb. Totally unacceptable.

I find it interesting that this theory of "ownership" only applies to sport climbing, or where a bolt is placed, hence my comments re trad + bouldering. if punters think that all unclaimed trad routes are open, then if i place a bolt on it can i therefore "claim" it as being my project? What if someone like Kerianl think it dont need a bolt and that I'm a gutless whimp (not only because i dotn give you my name) because the runnout isnt that bad?
what about placing chains at the end of a trad climb..what affect does that have on it?

>..... I am of the other camp, I think that climbing ethics
>of old should be respected and passed on to us new climbers, just think
> they evolved by word of mouth uncallenged for so long, I know I am in
>no position to change them.

Well I think you are, we all are. if we stuck to *all* the old ethics then we woudlnt be using chalk and active protection or climbing on boulders, and yo-yo'ing would be a legitimate tactic to secure a FA (some people still think it is!...good for them), and pitons would still be whacked in.

>Contrary to popular belief, I am a real person too!
good for you :)

and best 'o luck for the FA.

donking

by the way, you say that it look like no one has been on the route, but you need to place bolts to climb it. Surely then if there are no bolts on the "route" then no one has climbed it?

(removed)

21-Oct-2003
3:03:59 PM

I've already stated my opinions about anonymity on this site, but for the record I stand by Kieran and Peter's opinions ... feel free to comment DK, after all, there's nothing stopping you, but don't expect me to pay any attention to the content ...


Donut King

21-Oct-2003
3:39:23 PM

Ok....ok...ok.. I get the point.

Seeing my anonymity affects (or pissis u off) the way some of you view *any* post I make I have added in name and email (although its a yahoo one) for those that wish to make use of it (?)

I hope then we can move on and argue a bit more on this topic, you can slag off on my posts with confidence, and in some case even gain my respect 'cos you know my name!

oh yeah and I'm a Taurus as well........ :0

I hope you wont be ofended if i keep the bag on my head?

lots of love

Don(ut)


Rupert

21-Oct-2003
3:56:53 PM

On 21/10/2003 Donut King wrote:
>I hope you wont be ofended if i keep the bag on my head?

well it looks like a suitably recycled paper one.. so I guess we'll put up with it. ; )


IdratherbeclimbingM9

21-Oct-2003
5:33:07 PM

So do we need to have a 'coming out' party now?

kieranl

21-Oct-2003
10:49:09 PM

Whatever DK,
I've always worked on the basis that I am accountable. If I have gone over the top (and I have done) or pissed people off (ditto) then people have a real person to deal with.
I have always laid my identity open for people. It's not comfortable as I often over-react to things. That's how I operate. It's not easy but I couldn't hide behind pseudonyms.
Kieran


Donut King

22-Oct-2003
11:11:56 AM

Great...

it feels so good to be out of the "closet", no need for a party, but thanks anyway :)

for what its worth i really dont care what anyones real name is, i would still treat you all the same regardless. the fact that you may choose to use your name does not change the way i act, or respond to any post....the name means nothing.

but you guys are all good to rant and rave about stuff, it a great way to look like i'm busy on the computer. i really enjoy reading some of your comments, even yours Kieranl!

on with the show......

DK


Donut King

22-Oct-2003
1:54:43 PM

the route is above a mineshaft!!!!

You've cleaned and bolted the route. i think you would have done enough to claim the route as being yours, just as though you have drilled 10 bolts + lower off, and that people should respect your intention to want to get the FA, no doubt about it.

How have your marked it so that others know its an ongoing project?

The same goes for boulder "projects" how would you mark those as being an ongoing project?

I'm not aware of anyone that would go out of their way to climb anyones "project" either.
good luck getting a belayer, and on the climb.

dk

Dalai

22-Oct-2003
2:23:31 PM

On 22/10/2003 kent wrote:

>>The same goes for boulder "projects" how would you mark those as being
>an ongoing project?
>
>don't have a clue. Maybe the bouldering community needs to work out a
>system... i imagine it's not much of a problem in victoria at the moment.

Keep the area secret!!

There are 68 messages in this topic.