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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 88
Author
New bolt on Blimp - Bundaleer

nmonteith
7-May-2018
2:50:58 PM
I vote for Rosea to be entirely bolt free ala Ben Lommond. If there are anchors there now - chop 'em.
gfdonc
7-May-2018
3:14:36 PM
On 7-May-2018 armstp wrote:
>This isn’t only in relation to bolt for peg exchanges but includes abseil
>anchors. It would be a shame for a great adventure cliff like Rosea to
>go the way of Arapiles with abseil escape anchors 2 or 3 pitches up on
>multi pitch routes because the rest of the route isn’t as good [many routes
>left of the staircase fit this category, and a number to the right].

You raise an interesting point (I'll opt to ignore Neil's inflammatory comment above).
The left end of Rosea, as far as I know, lacks any descent anchors. I don't think it needs any. The routes are spread out far and wide, and access via the top track works OK in many cases (though if you've left your gear at the bottom of Raw Prawn you're in for a long walk to get it back).
On the other hand the anchors at the top of P3 of Mug's Alley (shh! don't tell Neil) have reinvigorated that area as the rock above isn't worthwhile and several good routes finish at that ledge.
I expect by the description that anyone doing Spelio Pinnacle (haven't done it myself) would appreciate a better way of getting off than downclimbing the last pitch, but in this case it sounds like part of the adventure (and well described).
I've recently been carrying a short length of rope and a mallion 'in case', but I don't think leaving tat behind is a better answer than placing anchors.
Mr Poopypants
7-May-2018
5:28:59 PM
On 7-May-2018 nmonteith wrote:
>The whole route would have been protected by pitons originally I would
>guess - and the one lone left over they probably couldn't get back out
>easily! To interstaters - this route is as significant to Victorian climbing
>as Eternity or Janicepts in the Bluies or Infinity at Frog - imagine if
>someone whacked a bolt in those...

Ewbank bolted The Eternity. They're still there.
G.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
7-May-2018
6:01:29 PM
On 7-May-2018 The good Dr wrote:
>From Jim Titt (Bolt Products - Germany) after extensive testing of various
>pitons in an attempt to design a corrosion resistant pin to put to market
>....
>
>"Conclusions
>The result of producing nice corrosion resistant pitons is that climbers
>may blindly trust them with potentially fatal results.
>
>Climbers from previous generations rightly distrust in situ pegs, rusting
>or not, and anyway usually have a healthy aversion to falling off! The
>modern sport and indoor climbing generation may tend to see shiny and think
>strong with the inevitable consequences.
>
>A peg can only be trusted on the day it was placed. Only the climber who
>placed it can give an opinion on its reliability, anything else is only
>a guess.
>
>My feeling is that to put corrosion resistant pegs on the market for permanent
>placements would be irresponsible and other solutions need to be found."

Hmm.
I'm not entirely convinced that pitons were ever intended as 'permanent placements' once the golden age of their use came into being...
If so, why did Yvon Chouinard 'invent' the hardened steel re-usable piton?

ajfclark
7-May-2018
6:05:33 PM
Because he was tight? ;-)
kieranl
7-May-2018
6:15:58 PM
Probably worth people's while reading Bruno Zielke's account of the FA on the Open Spaces site to get the background.

Also, the original description, included in the article, says "seven pitons, wire sling cracker and a bolt are in place for protection" and "three of these were used for rest"

Duang Daunk
7-May-2018
7:28:04 PM
On 7-May-2018 kieranl wrote:
>Probably worth people's while reading Bruno Zielke's account of the FA on the Open Spaces site to get the background.
>
>Also, the original description, included in the article, says "seven pitons,
>wire sling cracker and a bolt are in place for protection" and "three of
>these were used for rest"

Which is at odds with Bruno's recollection in the comment following the article.

Thanks for the link bro Kman.

Who's up for the 50th year anniversary ascent 19/01/2019?
You've only got 7 months left now to grow your cajones to the size of Brunos if you're going to do it in original style.


Bro ajf, YC tight?
How heavy do you reckon a rack of disposable pitons would be for 30 odd pitches of Yosemite climbing?

The good Dr
7-May-2018
9:16:45 PM
On 7-May-2018 nmonteith wrote:
>I vote for Rosea to be entirely bolt free ala Ben Lommond. If there are
>anchors there now - chop 'em.

I vote for nmonteith to be entirely nut free (like Ben Lomond without Tastard). If there are nuts there now - chop em ... :)
ademmert
8-May-2018
7:14:42 AM
On 7-May-2018 nmonteith wrote:
>I vote for Rosea to be entirely bolt free ala Ben Lommond. If there are
>anchors there now - chop 'em.

To late for Rosea there has been a lot of steel going in over there (not by me)

FatBoy
8-May-2018
10:04:37 AM
On 8-May-2018 ademmert wrote:
>On 7-May-2018 nmonteith wrote:
>>I vote for Rosea to be entirely bolt free ala Ben Lommond. If there are
>>anchors there now - chop 'em.
>
>To late for Rosea there has been a lot of steel going in over there (not
>by me)

Never too late for un-bolting activities.

FTR I share Neil's (admittedly presumably tongue in cheek) view. I think Rosea - particularly with its natural descent would have been a better cliff overall with a strict no fixed gear ethic. Everyone going in there would have known precisely what they were up against and would be able to make their judgement accordingly.

nmonteith
8-May-2018
4:10:52 PM
Im not being tongue in cheek about no bolts at Rosea. 20 years ago you could count the bolts at Rosea on one hand - and half of those were rap anchors. There was a moment that could have been grasped to make it a trad only area but alas it appears the horse has bolted. Ive been banging on about this for well over a decade on Chockstone if you do a search.
dan_b
8-May-2018
5:11:59 PM
I did the route when 21 was my limit. I had saved it for years for the onsite and didn’t clip the piton. I’d like to see the bolt gone.

I’d also like ODHs opinion.
armstp
8-May-2018
5:36:55 PM
When I look at what has happened to Dreamtime Wall, for many years a little visited remote multi pitch adventure trad cliff in a wilderness setting, which has morphed into a popular heavily bolted sport cliff in a short space of time I worry that I see what the future holds for Rosea.

Given the featured nature of the rock and the generally no more than vertical angle it is possible to see endless possibilities for pushing up bolt protected climbs on Rosea. Whilst I am not a ‘slippery slope’ believer in relation to the odd abseil anchor, Dreamtime shows that it is easy to open the flood gates once you have bolted a few things.

Vwills
8-May-2018
7:02:43 PM
Definitely doesn't need a bolt. But there are a number of sports routes, lunging for melons being immediately adjacent with its extension, to Blimp, and the route off the tripod nearby, and touchstone pics ( the other side).so I don't think it will go back to being bolt free. But Blimp definitely didn't need a bolt.

Vwills
8-May-2018
7:04:45 PM
Oh, just realised Rosea had crept in to discussion.
gfdonc
9-May-2018
6:24:59 AM
Neil, yes you've been saying this for a long time.
If your point really is that you don't want to see Rosea turned into a sport cliff, then I absolutely agree.
But the occasional bolt or rap anchor 'does not a sport cliff make'.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
9-May-2018
7:14:11 AM
On 9-May-2018 gfdonc wrote:
>Neil, yes you've been saying this for a long time.
>If your point really is that you don't want to see Rosea turned into a
>sport cliff, then I absolutely agree.
>But the occasional bolt or rap anchor 'does not a sport cliff make'.
>
Having seen the way many climbing locations in the blueys have gone, I agree with nmonteith on this and would like to see Rosea as Aussie’s mainland Ben Lommond, especially since the bastion of Arapiles has long since fallen!

gfgonc, how does your statement above reconcile with armstp’s recent post?
(Reproduced below for convenience, as you didn’t respond to it in similar sentiment, though had entered into dialogue with his earlier post)...
On 8-May-2018 armstp wrote:
>When I look at what has happened to Dreamtime Wall, for many years a little
>visited remote multi pitch adventure trad cliff in a wilderness setting,
>which has morphed into a popular heavily bolted sport cliff in a short
>space of time I worry that I see what the future holds for Rosea.
>
>Given the featured nature of the rock and the generally no more than vertical
>angle it is possible to see endless possibilities for pushing up bolt protected
>climbs on Rosea. Whilst I am not a ‘slippery slope’ believer in relation
>to the odd abseil anchor, Dreamtime shows that it is easy to open the flood
>gates once you have bolted a few things.
>
dalai
9-May-2018
7:37:45 AM
Sounds like a moratorium on new bolts at Rosea would be a great start?

From today 9/05/2018 any new bolts placed at Rosea from today will be removed.

Goshen
9-May-2018
7:43:30 AM
I disagree with making Rosea entirely bolt free... No-where else in the Grampians has this ethic, and you would be removing a few routes at the harder grades. Although we should certainly adhere to the mixed nature of grampians climbing - and be strict about bolts where there is trad gear available.

I spent a day on the LHS a little while ago, and while there were no bolted anchors, a lot of routes do not go to the top of the cliff (or at least, many shouldn't); you just find a tree or leave a sling... not really a problem as few people go there - but it's not just a case of "there's an easy walk-down, take it".

FatBoy
9-May-2018
7:52:13 AM
On 8-May-2018 nmonteith wrote:
>...but alas it appears the horse has bolted.
I see what you did there.

>Ive been banging on about this for well over a decade on Chockstone if you do a search.
My apologies, although I'm not going to search all of chockstone every time I post.

 Page 2 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 88
There are 88 messages in this topic.

 

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