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Repeat and retrobolt best easy route at Buffalo 10-Mar-2008 At 10:58:03 PM jgoding

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I suggest you ask yourself why many of the bold lines have none if any bolts. It's often a simple case that the first ascentionists don't have access to a drill or can't be stuffed with the cost and effort. It takes a lot of time, training, energy and money to equip routes well. Sometimes people go back and retrobolt routes to make them more user friendly. Sometimes they don't. It's always been up to the first ascentionist.

If there is a precedent of bold lines in an area does that mean that there is no room for anything but bold lines? I think not. I think there should be some choice.

Mt Buffalo is a wonderful place, and to have no user friendly easier lines seems like a great tragedy to me.

Ever wondered why the bolts get closer as the grades get harder? i.e "well" bolted 23+ routes? Perhaps Buffalo is not such a great example but I hope you understand my point. There is pretty much no one out there (with access to a drill) willing to invest the time effort and energy to setup good fun climbs (with bolts) for easy and moderate climbers. There are and have been a lot of opportunities which have for the most part ended up with lots of very bold easier lines.

I also ask you this - when you put up a new climb should you consider others, or do it with as little protection as you think is ok for you, and if very few others can repeat the line in that style then so be it?

I certainly try to keep other people in mind and equip the routes I choose to put up accordingly. I've made some mistakes sure, but hey don't we all? I suggest you consider the intention as well as the outcome before going off guns blazing on the attack.

If anyone thinks I am on a single minded mission to make safe every climb there is you are very misguided. I deeply respect those brave souls who are prepared to run it out more than me, I simply choose not to, and try to offer a choice of something other than this, particularly at Buffalo. I do not aspire to do every line there is - far from it. I choose a much higher level of risk protection than many and am willing to defend my choice.

In relation to topos and the recording of first ascents in general I have always strived to try and simply clarify a large number of new routes among various cliffs around Australia. The initial write up is often vague and ambitious and sometimes changes or "clarifications" are made after different photos are shown to the first ascentionist or they make repeated visits to the area to verify it first hand. In short no-one is perfect - not the people writing up new routes, or the people attempting the very difficult task of recording them.

PS I repeated NO on Saturday while Geoff Gledhill put up a stunning ground up 510m new route on the buttress to the left, which goes at grade 14 or thereabouts. Most of the pitches have no gear on route and one of the pitches had to be simulclimbed for 30m (making a 90m pitch). Very impressive. I've got an aerial photo which I hope to turn into a topo to assist in showing where this line goes. The rock quality and climbing from all accounts was pretty good and consistent.

I really enjoyed NO. I think it's always going to need an experienced leader who doesn't mind running it out. We (and another party who did it yesterday) think the track could benefit from some marking as we both got lost and finding the start is a bit tricky. Also - if it helps the starting point (where you leave the lower car) is 7.7km below the signposted Mackey's lookout car park. There are some white boulders on the right (part of the gully) and a bit of orange tape wrapped around a tree about 5-10m to their right - visible from the road. Basically straight up from there.