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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area Location Sub Location Crag Links
VIC Southwest You Yangs Gravel Pit Tor (General) [ You Yangs Guide | Images ] 

Broken Dreams Beta

11:51:24 PM
I’m looking for some info on the Kim Carrigan route Broken Dreams at Gravel Pit Tor, the You Yangs done in 1985. Particularly where the route went after the bolted section and horizontal crack. The big question I have is whether or not the top crack of Orpheus has ever been freed. So, I’m hoping that someone who was around back in the 80’s might know how Kim finished this climb, or also where any subsequent repeaters have gone.

The descriptions in the three guides I have are quite confusing and don’t quite make sense.
The Rock guide from the 90’s says “up 4m R of Orpheus (three FHs), then L to undercling. Flake, then finish up Chuck Solids”.
The South West Victoria VCC guide from 2003 says “Brilliant, steep face climbing which falters only upon reaching the trench of Orpheus. Start from the boulders 4m right of the Orpheus crack, following 3 FHs up and leftwards…to the horizontal undercling leading leftwards to the flake, and up this to finish as for Chuck Solids. A more enjoyable but less immediate conclusion would be the aręte of Edging Bets”.
And then the more recent Rock Climbs around Melbourne says to finish up the overhanging trench of Orpheus.

Just to describe the route, the first half has three bolts and is some cool, hard, overhanging climbing up some funky side pulls, a pocket and a heel hook (not the usual granite micro edges). A really tricky dynamic move to undercling the horizontal which runs across the whole face. Then a couple metres left is the overhanging trench of the aid route Orpheus. Then a couple metres left is the aręte of Edging Bets. Then another 2m left is the third bolt of Chuck Solids.

So if Broken Dreams finished up the Orpheus trench crack, the crack would be the crux. Its 5 metres of 45 degrees overhanging, off fist size, flared and mostly smooth crack. I would think grade 29 or 30, not that I have the experience to have any idea. (And the Ogive at the Gramps is 28). Its just really burly. If the crux was finishing up the trench I would have thought this would rate more of a mention originally.
The description of left to flake and up wouldn’t make sense as how could you confuse ‘flake’ with an overhanging trench. But then there is no really distinguishing flake anywhere – although the holds on the aręte and on Chuck Solids could possibly be described as flakes.
As for the description to finish as for Chuck solids in the two older guides – Chuck Solids and Edging Bets share a finish up a seam 2m left of where Orpheus finishes.

Is this the last great crack test piece of the Youies……?

11:56:18 PM
I also have a question about the bolts. They are marked 316 stainless, have 14mm bolt heads and have RP removable bolt brackets which are firmly wedged underneath. Are these original from 1986 and are they bash ins. I did fall on them but wasn't particularly happy about it so I might replace them with some rings.
12:56:50 PM
In this case a "flake" could just be that, something the size of a piece of "flake', ie the fish you get from fish and chips shops and not some mega geological feature that can be seen from miles away. It is the Youies we are talking about here, not Yosemite.
2:44:45 PM
My impression was that you traversed past the trench and worked onto the face to the left...

Dave Clarke would be the man to ask, as he has photos from those days posted in the You Yangs gallery. Dave Clarke Photos

Rebolting would be good. Also consider checking out the possibility of a direct finish heading up the face from the right end of the undercling...

E. Wells
3:16:43 PM
The bolts sound pretty good to me! If its stainless and they bashies they will last longer than glue. ( ive never placed a bashie but had the displeasure of replacing them). Maybe put a little twisted mallion on them so your biners dont get wasted by the thin rp plates? Nobody used 316 in the blueys back then!
3:54:56 PM
On 10/01/2016 E. Wells wrote:
>The bolts sound pretty good to me! If its stainless and they bashies they
>will last longer than glue. ( ive never placed a bashie but had the displeasure
>of replacing them). Maybe put a little twisted mallion on them so your
>biners dont get wasted by the thin rp plates? Nobody used 316 in the blueys
>back then!

Stainless carrots are the worst!!! just replace them. Use a socket set and replace with rings or fhs
4:12:42 PM
Totally agree with KP. They'll be bash-in carrots and they've been driven hard to lock on those removable RP brackets. Extract them and put in something decent.

7:07:21 PM
Thanks Kp and Kieren, will get around to putting some rings in over the next few months.

7:17:59 PM
Yes Dalai a direct finish would make it a great route instead of all that traversing rope drag. I had a bit of a look and there are some holds but also blank bits I couldn't see a way past.

E. Wells
10:00:03 PM
Im not arguing , just genuinely interested to know why they are worse. I have removed similar arangements with non stainless bashies on stainless rp plates and the corrosion compared to the bashies without hanger is significant. Is there something about stainless that is less than ideal compared to mild steel? The recent video of an ascent in the wolgan featured stainless bashies. Why are they bad to fall on?

11:35:37 PM
My understanding is mixing non stainless with stainless will accelerate corrosion.

As for bashies, they are variable. Ok solution for seldom repeated adventure route in less than vertical placements. But, there is no guarantee of how much outward force they will hold, whereas there is for glue ins or expansions (in solid rock).
Non stainless bashins can hold better than stainless because the rust can lock them in place. Stainless bashins have been known to pop out occasionally, its just impossible to guarantee a perfect interference fit.

Maybe bomber, maybe not...some situations maybe is just not acceptable.

12:20:34 AM
Also..... considering the route is 20 degree ( possibly more?) overhung carrots are ridiculous !
8:21:19 AM
Plus they've got keyhole hangers on them - they're just not suitable as a fixed hanger and will start to butterfly with traffic - not that it seems this route has ever gotten much. The bolts have to be overdriven to hold the hangers on (unless Kim managed the perfect taper on all of the bolts).
316 carrots on a slab - OK
316 carrots on an overhang - not so good
316 carrots on an overhanging wall with keyhole hangers and overdriven - worse

9:58:25 AM
My view is that mild steel bash-ins get locked in to the hole due to the expansion forces of surface corrosion. Stainless don't get that benefit.
10:46:45 AM
Yes, rust is your friend, for a while

There are 15 messages in this topic.


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