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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Buffalo	The Horn Environs	(General)	The Horn	[ Horn Guide ]

Topic Date User

Bolting at The Horn, Mount Buffalo 7-Feb-2013 At 4:22:01 PM White Trash

Message

On 7/02/2013 Andrew Davis wrote:
>Hi Stu I have no idea who you are, how you were introduced to climbing,
>who you climb with, and what your experience has been, but you eplain your
>points well so i do get some sense of your values and probably share many
>of them, certainly your respect for the stunning natural environments where
>climbing can take you. My journey into climbing, and my reasons and motivations
>for it probably come from a very different paradigm than your own, but
>i hope you dont think your views are the only right ones, although a couple
>of your buddies priase you for them. Try to imagine what your experience
>and motivation would be if you had worked 10 years of your life on residential
>and recreation programs with high risk difficult and disengaged teenagers.
> Maybe you would see the values in some things a little differently
>
>Having said that and having read your comments it still sounds like this
>topic has wading into the long running war in the climbing world between
>trad and sport. I enjoy both forms but agree there is nothing better than
>climbing a good natural trad line. Some climbers seem to have a fundamentalist
>type disdain for bolts regardless, but I think most climbers would say
>sport certainly has its place. Im not a fan of every bolt at the Horn
>but I think there has been restraint shown and its hardly going to become
>a grid of bolts. Buffalo is know for its discrete carrots and not sure
>why they were changed to FH on Parrot or the changing nature of things
>in Dreamworld, but i do think a climb you’re suppose to protect by somehow
>getting up there and throwing a knotted rope down was surely only a temporary
>measure. Therefore I cannot understand why anyone would object to Profanities
>being bolted and when someone said they wanted to do it i was all in favour
>and even bought them some ss bolts. A nut, sling, and cam are still used
>in the second half. I have contacted and chatted with Andrew at VCC since
>seeing this thread and will keep in touch with them so I can avoid a repeat
>of offending others. Nothing in the area being discussed was put there
>in an impulsive manner but was rationally discussed and though about for
>a least 2 summers.
>
>It takes a lot more effort and cost to establish something than it does
>to remove it, so I hope those who decide something needs removing show
>logic and restraint, and don’t just think out of self interests or personal
>disdain for bolts. And if a few vocal people here think they are in the
>majority and have outnumbered everyone else then they should consider maybe
>the majority is usually the quieter group who would be in favour of what’s
>there.
>
>Apologies for only visiting this blog a handful of times in the last 12
>years, but I don't find it an inviting community I want to be part of,
>but that is another topic which i just might start in another thread.
>

i am not a buddy of superstu as I have never met him.
you wouldn't be a politician by any chance would you andrew?, given that you seem to have not answered any specific questions asked of you.

in the above post you say
> Im not a fan of every bolt at the Horn
>but I think there has been restraint shown and its hardly going to become
>a grid of bolts. Buffalo is know for its discrete carrots and not sure
>why they were changed to FH on Parrot or the changing nature of things
>in Dreamworld

do you really think the recent bolts in this area show restraint?
are you aware of the controversy that j goding stirred up with his bolting at dreamworld and other places at mt buffalo?