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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
All NSW	(General)	(General)	(General)

Topic Date User

Rings on 12-Aug-2012 At 9:10:21 AM Nick Clow

Message

> Just to make things clear to everyone, I have accepted a challenge to try the retrobolted version of what was once a bold route.........bold enough that I was never up for the risk. Now that it has 2 extra bolts, it's pretty unlikely that a fall will lead to injury (sorry to disappoint those of you who were hoping for that result)

Don't worry ODH, if Macciza chops the route, then all bets are off. I won't hold you to 30 feet of soloing to the first bolt and I won't deem you to be a pussy for not getting on it.

I was reflecting on this whole thing yesterday. It occurred to me (as mentioned by someone early in the thread) that erosion has had a material effect on the proposition presented by this climb.

There is a lip at the base of the climb that looks like it used to be flush with the ground. The ground has probably eroded by about 5 feet below this since the 80s.

Putting myself in an imaginary time machine and going back to what the climb would have been like in the 80s, I get the following:
* You reach a good hold from the ground. The first bolt is 20 feet or more off the deck, but the climbing is fairly consistent and not likely to spit you off before clipping it. Pushing the boat out? Yes, but many climbs had starts like this to 'keep the fluff off'.

And now (assuming original bolts):
* The start is much, much harder (sorry to give away beta) and you have 10 feet of extra climbing (including traversing) before getting to that first good hold which is now 12 feet or so off the ground. Your first bolt is now closer to 30 feet off the deck. Things are getting a bit stupid.

The two extra retro bolts have been placed to protect the start.

The real business of this climb is upstairs, the first 30 feet of it being only a minor part of the story. As I have said before, the retro-bolted version is not 'sport-bolted'. The gear placements (not straight-forward) are retained. Anyone leading it onsight/ground-up will need to pack some commitment.

Macciza, I sympathise with your views because I have been very upset by some retro jobs in the past. However, whilst the re-bolting of this climb is a really tricky issue and I can see both sides, I can't get upset over this one. The retro job actually could have been a lot worse. Could it have been better? Maybe. (Only one non-stick clippable carrot added to protect the start?)

Dalai has made some very fair points in this thread. Dalai, I totally agree with you that the calibre of the suitors on this route is not impressive!! Middle-aged, middle-grade punters all round. I have absolutely no doubt that there are plenty of people out there who could onsight this route on the original bolts. If I was a decent young climber reading this, I would be inclined to onsight the route, skipping the first 2 bolts to make a point to the old farts carrying on.

We will see what happens. I do think it would be truly extraordinary from an ethical standpoint if the route is chopped by someone who has been top-roping it!