Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
All NSW	(General)	(General)	(General)

Topic Date User

Rings on 7-Aug-2012 At 9:38:35 PM hangdog

Message

On 7/08/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>Yes. I would like that choice, not the modern experience of safety that
>has been imposed on us.

Where is the imposition? If you want to do with the original protection then clip those ones. No one forces anyone to clip them. So dont. (Backwards forwards the arguement goes)

>
>You really don't get it.
>By changing the protectability you change the entire experience of challenging
>oneself in an environment of consequence.

I do get it. My original post was in reference to a route that was retro bolted with bolts added (i think ??) My comment referred to those routes not every route. You have an element of control over the consequence. Clip the original feel good having done in a style similiar to the original. Everybody knows that the route was originally done less equipped. If you clip them all then you are not doing it in its original bold style.
>
>Boldness has it's own value.
>This starts before one even leaves the ground, as Macciza and ODH have
>said/alluded to.
>By retroing this route it has been desecrated.

Maybe (thinking aloud now) and in reference to the Echo Wall routes probably yes. I think the two routes are not the same. Mt York vs Echo Wall.

>No.
>Some of us still admire a bold lead, and desire historical time honoured
>test pieces to measure ourselves against.

Me too. I am not sure how a simple comment about re-equipping some route at Mt York got to this, but hey its chockstone. I watched WB taking whippers off during the first ascent of the route at echo point. Scary stuff and impressive.
>
>
>I am sorry to have to say this hangdog, but your boldness ethic would
>receive equal lack of sympathy if you transposed it to most climbs at places
>like Mt Buffalo, where historical ascents have been bold by comparison
>to your 'modern' view.

Ok ok i never wanted to wear the mantle of supporter of the re equipping of old scary death lead routes. Bolt or chop do what you will!!
Let me know when anyone supporting leaving these bold routes bold actually climbs them. I would like to see it.
Too tired to argue anymore got to plan a months climbing in Austria and Italy.
Maybe some long unprotected classic routes complete with original pro.

>
>
>
>
>