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Crag & Route Beta

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Shackles and the sheriff of Shipley 21-Apr-2011 At 5:33:24 PM hotgemini

Message

On 21/04/2011 Linze wrote:
>was always gonna be a tough battle this one...should have just put it in
>trip reports!... oh well, will fight on regardless..
>
>
>>However when someone who is consuming that donated resource suddenly
>feels
>>a sense of entitlement that they should be allowed to bump their rate
>of
>>consumption up to 5 or 10 times that amount, then you surely must be
>able
>>to understand that the donors of that resource are justified in their
>concern.
>> You're stealing a disproportionate amount of something that they donated
>>to the broader community.
>
>
>i think you kinda missed my original point. i dont promote top roping
>off the anchor, but seeing as some will do it lots, some will do it sometimes
>and some will do it never, it is not worth taking anywhere near as seriously
>as people do. no matter what you do it is always going to happen on this
>kind of route. So, rather than putting up shackles, which is inevitably
>going to cause vexation, why not put in a couple of biners, it seems appropiate
>given the likely use... plus it will also be much easier for the common
>climber to replace them when they look bad. maybe this is one case where
>it is just better to recognise that it is a bit of a lost cause and let
>it slide when it is not a massive problem?
>
>the other point was that everyone does things that create more wear than
>nessesary, and so i am offended by the notion that we blame the bumblies
>that could do with an extra bit of comfort/one less challenge. why not
>give me a hard time for lowering when i could rap (or even back jump if
>we are so committed to anchor preservation)? instead people are happy to
>harass the poor helmeted folks that are leashed to the nearest tree and
>cant escape (and who are, probably not feeling a sense of entitlement so
>much as just trying to survive a day out) - maybe becasue they know that
>these people wont bite back???
>
>also the 'runs on the board' thing gripes me... i commend those who rebolt
>a lot, but those that bolt and think it elevates their position or authority
>can p*&s off, once you leave your steel in the wall you can offer all the
>advice you want, but have no actual 'right' to say how it is used.

1) Shackles *ARE* easily replaceable wearing components, adding carabiners doesn't change the issue.

2) Non-captive carabiners go missing off anchors with disappointing regularity, so that's just seeking to even further increase the workload on the noble few who make significant contributions.

3) Nobody is blaming the bumblies. Anyone who has spoken to Mitch knows that he would be every bit as forward and direct regardless of the climb/grade/personality involved, IMHO you're trying to hide behind a strawman argument here. It is not about grade/ability/experience.

4) It's not a question of authority, nobody can stop you from destroying the resource that has been donated if it so pleases you. It's a question of respect, reciprocity and common decency.

It reminds me of the street where my grandmother lived until 3 or 4 years ago (and my father grew up) in the suburb of Enoggera in Brisbane, next door to her (and on the corner of the street) the older gentleman neighbour had a number of fruit trees (mostly citrus) which he tended to and he allowed people to pick some fruit on the understanding that they only took a reasonable amount for personal consumption (and in parallel with the anchor situation I note that larger families took more fruit, my grandmother took only a little, the injustice!!). This situation existed without incident for over a quarter of a century.

However as is want to happen, the folks in the street got older and eventually passed on, some of newcomers to the street (dinki couple) started taking advantage of the arrangement, they would pick every single piece of vaguely ripe fruit off the trees/vines and take it home with them. My grandmother's neighbour on several occaisions tried asking politely and when that failed he was as firm as a man in his early 80s can be when trying to reprimand someone half a century his junior can be.

Eventually the selfish neighbours annoyed my neighbour enough that he fenced off his block and nobody was able to have any fruit, he was in fact so disheartened that he removed the bulk of those trees.

So, I'll repeat my offer. If you're willing to put your money where your mouth is and donate $1000 towards anchor upgrades at the blackheath crags, I'll donate my time and we can work together to double that money and we put it into play.

-Adam.