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Tuesday Night Bouldering: The rating game 26-Mar-2011 At 12:20:09 PM egosan

Message

On 26/03/2011 fish boy wrote:
>Sol, everything in david's life needs an unambiguous, black and white explanation!
>Maybe he should take up another game....

Maybe he has. Trolling is good family fun.

On 26/03/2011 davidn wrote:
>This is actually the best point that's been made so far.

Of course it is. I made it.

> But I still think it can be dangerous. People *do* get out of their depth
>and get injured or die - would you feel comfortable knowing your grading
>of a climb might have been a contributing factor to such a thing? I'd
>feel rotten.

Dangerous! Of course it is dangerous! Hell getting out of bed is dangerous. Driving to the crag is dangerous. Climbing is dangerous period. The consequences for failure are big. I am not talking about failure to make the top of your sandbag 21. I am talking about the failure to tie your knot correctly. I am talking about the things you have to do if you want to be able to sit around the fire at the end of the day spewing about the sandbag.

If some dies on one of my FAs it won't be because of the grade I give it. It will be because they fcuked up. *Points to the body* Ipso facto. There is the body. They failed. When I run it out one too many times and deck, it will be because I fcuked up. I refuse to pass my failures on to someone or something else.

>You can argue that people should be well prepared, etc.
>But then, checking the grade is one part of being well prepared, isn't
>it? And newer climbers are unconscious incompetents - they sometimes don't
>know enough to know what well prepared is.

Tough shite. This world is a hard and unforgiving place.

>That aside, I'm certainly not the only climber who's jumped on a 21, hit
>a sequence of grade 24 moves and got fed up with a climb. I know because
>I talk to climbers. I aspire to be one!

Did you fail on those "grade 24" moves because of the humidity, because of your hangover, because you were scared, because you didn't have your good shoes, because it was too hot, too cold, too hard? -or- Did you fail because you are not good enough, not persistent enough, not willing to suffer enough?

What makes you think that you should have some some guarantee that you can safely top out a climb or any climb? No matter the grade, making it to the top of any climb safely is never a forgone conclusion. Hell just making it to the top is not a forgone conclusion. This is why I climb. The uncertainty of outcomes is the reason to climb.

The problem I have with the train of thought that follows from the complaint that a grade 21 that you can't climb is some how wrong or unfair is just this:

If we feel we deserve to get to the top, then we are willing to do anything to get there. This leads to compressor routes, to chipping, retro-bolting and all the things we hate in climbing.

If I make it to the top. The climb was too easy.

Granted there are many people who like just a nice day out. Great! Go wobble up your well protected climbs and mega classics. I look forward to you stories around the campfire. I will never begrudge anyone a nice day out. These very competent and safe climbers probably don't have any idea of their limits. They climb well with in them and as such make it back to the fire nearly all the time. Good on them. If they happen to get shut down on some hard 21. They laugh about it and promise to come back and try it again.

>It's terribly rude to refer to the post/s of a person I'm ignoring! To
>be fair, if someone called me out with logic or actual arguments (as you
>have), I'd be right in there continuing the discussion (as I am). Someone
>who chimes in with 'you know nothing, you obviously don't even climb, we
>all laugh at you, you r so dum'... I left that stuff behind when I quit
>teaching. It only invites similar comments in return; comments without
>substance or value.

Whatever, you poof. Substance and value are in the eye of the beholder, matie. Don't deprive us of our entertainment because you don't like grade school name calling.

My questions to you davidn:

If the grading system is broken/subjective/misleading/dangerous, what do you propose we do about it?

-edit: Fcuk you fishboy for beating to the punch. Good thing I have a better beard, otherwise I would feel inferior.