Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User

Off-topic: Climbers who believe in Jesus 6-Feb-2011 At 2:27:24 AM dave h.

Message

Well of course this thread was going to explode on the day when I was out for about 18 hours straight...

ODH - re your questions:

1)
A. God gave people brains to use. See the first three paragraphs of the Wikipedia article on Young Earth Creationism for a succint overview. Genesis isn't written for a bunch of 21st century westerners interested in scientific questions like "how". It's written for people living in the Middle East several thousand years ago. It's about where everything came from, who God is, and how humanity is to relate to Him. Those questions are, for me, the most significant.

2)
B. I'm happy to accept that Richard Lenski's E Coli experiment demonstrated microevolutionary changes in E Coli. I don't know how easy it is to

3.

I don't know if you're asking about Immaculate Conception, the virgin birth, or my Christology.

The phrase "Immaculate Conception" does not refer to the conception of Jesus. Instead it refers to a Catholic doctrine which states that Mary was untouched by Original Sin.
I think it's an unnecessary doctrine and disagree with it.

The virgin birth (/virgin conception) on the other hand, does refer to the conception of Jesus.
I don't think Mary was having it off with some guy, and God decided that He'd use the baby to do some pretty groovy stuff. Matthew & Luke don't go into whether or not Mary's eggs are involved; I'm inclined to think it doesn't matter.

Anyway, your answers:
a) Jesus did not come into existence when Mary became pregnant. John 1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning..." [etc].
b) If I understand this option correctly, accepting it would suggest that God had poured out His wrath for all the sins of history upon an innocent human (who was in no sense divine).
c) (Also applies to b). The Gospels are pretty clear on Jesus being the son of God (for instance Luke 4). Not sure what you mean by 'physical' son - are you trying to tactfully suggest that God got it on with Mary (much like Zeus gets it on with very many women in Greek mythology)?

d) Jesus:
- Eternally begotten of the Father (ie has always existed with the Father, there was never a time when the son did not exist.)
- conceived by the Holy Spirit in an unspecified, miraculous, non-sexual manner.
- born of Mary

See the link for an early Christian creed (it's a bit more expansive than the apostolic creed on questions of Christology). It's a corker ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_versions_of_the_Nicene_Creed_in_current_use#1988_ecumenical_version_.28ELLC.29

Now I'm going to bed...