>If the latest hard man or woman cranking the desperates can only
>lead 14 on natural gear does this still make them good climbers??? (another
>true story)
A 'good' climber is whatever you reckon is good.
Personally I believe you must do alpine ascents of all 8000m peaks, onsight serpentine (placing only pitons on lead), drink 30 beers while soloing ozymandias direct in winter, and climb punks in the gym (without using the chipped hold), before you are a good climber.
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