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OT: Human Rights Framework 3-May-2010 At 10:48:13 AM Hendo

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I think I should say a few things about my intentions. I have probably been in the academic world too long with its appeal of academic freedom in which no topic is beyond question, people should expect to have their ideas criticized without taking it too personally, use argumentative techniques like exaggeration, questions, scenarios and examples etc to think critically about an idea. And refraining from very personal attacks. I have been a bit silly here in blindly transferring this to the crazy world of the internet where this isn’t the case. I can see that it can be wrong to so, especially without saying something like this first, so I am wrong here.

I realise this is sensitive topic and some people are going to get upset, this is not my intention. I do think that sensitive topics are in need of discussion not avoidance.

Some people might interpret my breaking down their statements into small points and criticising them as a personal attack but this is not the case this means I am enjoying considering your points. On the contrary I like having something to discuss. A lot of arguments seem to go backwards and forwards between ‘no you are wrong.’ + maybe some personal attacks, followed by ‘ here is my general view…’. This doesn’t really achieve much. If you break down ideas and think critically you can get somewhere. It isn’t usually realistic to think by discussing something that you will reverse a person’s mindset, however if you reduce it to small points you may be able to get them to concede smaller things, discover a different viewpoint, realise you aren’t as certain about parts of your opinion as you thought you were etc. So this is more my aim.

If too many people think this topic is too divisive (despite many people here preaching tolerance and acceptance), then I can shut up.

As for tolerance, I don’t like blanket statements like this

On 3/05/2010 Phil Box wrote:
>By the way I hate intolerance in any way shape or form, I simply cannot
>tolerate intolerance.

because often associated with it is the idea that ‘I consider myself a person tolerant of everything, my greater tolerance of others makes me a better person’. Expect maybe some buddihst or hindu monk or similar who has reached their enlightenment and dissociation from the world, nobody is tolerant of everything and nor should they be. Should we get rid of a system of laws because we are going to tolerate people whatever then choose to do? Should we release everyone from jail? Should we let anyone and everyone into this country, no limits? Are you going to tolerate Mr Ferguson? I think it is clear that all people have limits to what they will tolerate, intolerance is not by definition bad. Though you might disagree with them, you must accept that other people are going to have different limits that are conceivably ok. If you are serious about somehow fully embracing all people then you must realise this. If you don't then this is a form of looking for some homogeneity in your views.

If you then accept that you do not tolerate everyone, then doesn’t that mean you are not fundamentally different to me in your views, you just place your limits elsewhere?