Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User

OT: Moorabal/Lal Lal wind farm 10-Jul-2009 At 10:36:59 AM R James

Message

On 9/07/2009 evanbb wrote:
>On 9/07/2009 R James wrote:
>>I therefore suggest you think of the questions you want answered, then
>>do some research for the answers - not just the media.
>
> What raw data do
>you propose getting that will help you understand the whole climate system?

I wasn't going to push this, as I thought people, including yourself, had probably had enough, but seeing you insist :

1. The whole basis of this is global temperature change. RSS and UAH (satellite), plus GISS and Hadcrut (surface) publish global temperature data each month. This is not "raw data" as it is processed to allow for various effects (eg urban heat island effect, orbital changes), but it's as close as it's reasonable to expect. I plot and analyse these monthly. Links are :
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/uahncdc.lt
http://www.remss.com/data/msu/monthly_time_series/RSS_Monthly_MSU_AMSU_Channel_TLT_Anomalies_Land_and_Ocean_v03_2.txt
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/hadcrut3vgl.txt

I also look to long term data, available from various sources. Two possibilities are
http://petesplace-peter.blogspot.com/2007/04/global-temperature-variation-for-past.html
http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Images/Main/Warm_periods.jpg

You may choose to complain about the source of these. They are just easy to access - the same plots are readily available from lots of reliable sources for those who want to check.

2. One of the predicted consequences of global warming is catastrophic sea level rise. Locally to me (Sydney) Councils have spent a lot of money on consultants on this. I analyse monthly sea level data from Fort Denison Sydney for the past 44 years. The level has increased 8mm in the past 25 years, and nothing in the past 3 years (when the Arctic was supposed to be melting). ftp://ilikai.soest.hawaii.edu/woce/m333.dat

3. You can access lots of other data - Arctic and Antarctic ice area, atmospheric temperatures and various levels, CO2 concentrations all over the world etc.

Looking at these can't help but raise some serious questions, and unfortunately I, and many scientists, are not getting the needed answers.

I don't need to be a climate scientist to see that :

1.The temperature increase rate from 1910 - 1940 was the same as 1970 - 2000, even though there was no significant anthropogenic CO2 at that time.

2. There is nothing unusual in our current temperature changes based on long term (2,000 years plus) history.

3. The IPCC climate models failed to predict the last decade of cooling. We're about to change the world based on these unproven models.

4. Sea level trends aren't doing what was predicted, or even what we've been told.

5. The "global warming signature" 10km above the tropics as predicted by the models can't be detected.

Putting it simply, the facts don't fit the hypothesis

There's no need to respond to these - it's been done before. I'm simply inviting others to check for themselves, and draw their own conclusions.

>Not only do you propose that the thousands of scientists that are trying
>to do this are wrong, but that you know better than them!

I made no such suggestion. Equally, there are thousands of scientists saying the opposite (including many previously associated with the IPCC and NASA), and you call them wrong.

> Why have you
>chosen climate as the topic to try and take out of the hands of the experts?
>Why not economic policy? Or trade?

Because someone raised the question of climate here. I'm just responding. I'm trained to check whether facts fit an hypothesis. If they don't, or contradict it, then it remains an hypotheses of doubtful validity. Elevating to anything more (as our politicians are doing) is based on poor science. If scientists (or politicians) tell me that the sky has changed to green, and I look up and see blue, I simply won't believe them.