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General Climbing Discussion

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Should we stop placing carrots? 11-Feb-2009 At 8:34:09 AM jrc

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I don't remember much fearwhen using carrot bolts but rather disdain from those who had been to Europe and US and seen how simple it was not to have to place a bracket as well as to clip it.

If the carrot (probably placed by Brydenor a contemporary sometime between 63 and 72) on Fuddy Duddy hadn't held on my 20m near-factor 2 fall 36 1/2 years ago the history of Australian climbing could well have been different. Law was belaying and Kim was clipped to the same bolt. I did have a runner incorporated in the belay and I think we had a sling around some random bit of rock too but the bolt did the bulk of the work.

Warwick Baird was equally lucky to survive a 25m fall straight onto the belay on P8 of Ginsberg in 1981- in this case a 2 1/2" x 5/16 MS (not HT) carrot in a 1/4" hole - placed in 1969. You can buy these in Bunnings for 20c. It was still there -and yes we clipped it and put in 3 other anchors too - when I last did the route (Oct 2001). Bungles is hard rock too. Supposedly carrots are not so good in hard rock but the bungles experience with the 40 or so old bolts there belies that. Those that I have seen are filed extensively (see Pickard ref below).

Hammer in bolts can be very good anchors AS LONG AS WE ACCEPT THEY HOLD IN CERTAIN DIRECTIONS ONLY. Yes they can take some pull outwards but you wouldn't want to trust it. And it depends very much upon their location, material and history. The benefit of a hammer in in is you don’t need such a big hole & you can use it straight away. Also it is visually less intrusive.

Thanks to those who published the soft rock bolting guide and also Hawkshaw for his thesis. I probably need to get some glue if I do place another bolt. But if its on a lead oo some remote stuff I doubt if I would have time for it to dry.

The article "Bolts" by John Pickard in Thrutch of Sep-Oct 1967 gives a comprehensive review of the hammer in bolt + bracket system. It's worth a read.

John C