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Queenslanders going soft !! 7-Oct-2007 At 6:43:55 PM meinmuk

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It's good to get entertaining rants, and the original post was even more entertaining than this one. Moderately conceited and offensive, but that what rants are about...
>I start an important thread about ...blah blah blah
I don't believe, however, that the allegations are true
>' certain ' climbers... are being celebrated as the cutting-edge of world-wide climbing by pink-pointing hard/' death routes ' at FB .
Duncan himself has never claimed to be cutting-edge, and while it's true that there are heavily sponsored 16 year olds who climb harder before breakfast (e.g.the other Lama), there aren't many other 46 year olds climbing 32 on gear.
There is no doubt that this is a hard route; and the assertion that Flange Desire is a "death route" has not been countered by anyone - but if you want to get on it and disprove this, feel free, Climbing Jacques.
>If you bother to READ CAREFULLY , some of the comments on Qurank , you will see that a new wave of retro-bolting is being , slyly, planned for FB, and some of the young guys are keen to join in .
It's true that there has been vigorous debate about bolting policies and practices at KANGAROO POINT, the urban mega-crag (insert sarcastic tone here), I am not aware of any discussion of retrobolting FROG. There has been replacement, bolt-for-bolt of old hardware, but that ain't retro-ing in my book. Around the time of Rick's death there was discussion about pulling every bolt at Frog, but there were no proponents of retrobolting.
>How about clarifying your position here . Phil Box , on Chockstone , says Duncan climbed WK in 13 shots and five days ... Rock says 19 days over 2 years . AND that the gear was pre-placed .
The actual numbers of how may shots over how many days is really not important other than to say (1) not an onsight, and (2) it took persistence.
>The point I (and several climbers who share my concerns ) was making, was that the young guys and girls are now moving towards retro-bolting all the hard routes , because they see the ' older ' guys top-roping and pre-placing gear (pink-pointing ) then getting celebrated as ' climbing machines ' in the web and mags !! ... to them it all seems the same as clipping bolts and dogging --- so just get on with the retro-bolting .
I concur that pink-pointing trad routes is not as good form as redpointing/onsighting, but as BP has said well, climbing is selfish, and each to their own. I can't climb these routes because I am not able to dedicate the committment and time to it (and I don't have enough pairs of undies). I can say happily that I don't preplace on the routes I'm climbing, but that's because they all have holds on them, unlike the routes that the man of steel is on. It is true that other hard routes are being climbed with preplaced gear, and I concur that an evolutionary process would involve subsequent ground-up ascents.
It is a big leap to say that the widely perceived next step is retrobolting trad routes. I'm in QLD and I'm not hearing this large leap of logic. As tris has said, back it up.
>I also expressed the very good solution that climbers over the age of say , 29, (shock horror !!! generation X , THATS YOU !!! :O ), should be banned from FB , unless they restrict themselves to flashing , ground-up , all their ascents, so as to be good role models for the younger climbers
This is just a crap idea. We should all be excellent to each other. We should all aspire to our own goals. You make yours, I'll make mine.

>Is this so outrageous to express / inform whats going on at FB ?? To say that a new wave of retro-bolting will not only reinforce the notion that QLD always trends , culturally, to mediocrity with most things , AND to further add insult to Rick White's wish to keep FB as a trad paradise ??
>Everyone regards Arapiles as an AUSTRALIAN crag , even an international crag , but the Brissy boys seem to think FB is ' their's' to 'enhance'/abuse as they see fit .
It's not outrageous to express an opinion and I reckon the post shouldn't have been deleted. The assumption you've made is not supported by anything other than your unsupported assertions.
>This is of great concern to many climbers , and needs more discussion, since we ALL 'own ' FB.
Well, really none of us "own' FB...
andy
(edit for fomatting only)