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Topic Date User

Removing bolts to create trad paradise 6-May-2007 At 9:24:20 AM master of drung

Message

People seem to get so defensive and self righteous about bolting issues and it leads me to wonder how confident they really are about the appropriateness of their position, these attitudes are almost always the domain of the unsure.

Some more thoughts

-Neil (who is raising a discussion not actually chopping bolts) is hardly a part of the anti-bolt brigade, i seem to remember something about a climb called Snow Flurries (which i think makes the earlier question of whether this cliff was rosea or the asses ears kind of interesting) and whether you agree with him or not is always considered about what he posts on this forum unlike many of his clearly angry and less considered respondants whether this idea is a good one or not it deserves some fair consideration

-keiran who is in a position of some authority for the negative needs to consider three things, the first that this appears to me to be a very preliminary step along the path to a bolt free rosea there is no reason first ascentionists could not be contacted as a future step, secondly, and i could be wrong about this, he doesn't seem to be seeing a large grey area of ownership between himself a first ascentionist and the rest of the climbing community/general publicand thirdly no-one is questioning his ethics or ability in his deciding to place the bolts in the first place this issue is about more than one or two climbs by themselves

-the argument that this sets a dangerous precedent may have some truth but is total bullshit, why do you think people have been arguing against bolts for a hundred years? and whats more they were right! there is a creep factor of bolting ethics as time goes by.

-to place a bolt is always an ethical dilemma, to chop a bolt is always an ethical dilemma, to not place a bolt is never an ethical dilemma, (if safety is an issue then just don't tell anyone about the climb), I think what is being proposed crosses some ethically questionable grounds in the short term but removes these issues at this particular venue for the forseeable future. It is just a matter of waying up the cost to the reward.

-regarding the true meaning and history of trad climbing in victoria. this may be interesting to discuss but has no bearing on the issue at hand. what is in question is whether it is worth chopping the aforementioned bolts given all the associated issues in order to create a bolt free climbing area of significance for current and future climbers.

-i prefer to use more tradional homophobic slurs like pansy or fruit.