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General Climbing Discussion

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appalling and disgusting use of chalk 5-May-2007 At 3:28:24 AM Pei

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Okay I know this debate will probably go on and on for ages, and I'm just perpetuating it by posting on it, but I thought why not chuck in my two cents. Plus its late on a friday night and I'm stuck here in front of the computer trying to work on my research project and not really getting anywhere, so this will be some good procrastination.

i think whilst a lot of the 'help' from chalk may be purely pscyhological, there are definite tangible effects - have you ever tried hanging on to a sloper on a fingerboard without chalk, and then put chalk on and tried again - i used to be rather dubious of whether chalk really helped all that much and if it was more a psychological thing, but after doing this I must admit it changed my mind somewhat.

On 3/05/2007 steph wrote:
>I often
>find that you're pushing not just grades but moves indoors that no one
>in their right mind would do outdoors on natural gear for example, leading
>to a need for better grip on those greased holds.
>

I would have thought to the contrary - that one would be pushing their limits outdoors. I guess it depends really on what type of climbing one does. But say someone has a particular project climb in mind - they're probably much more likely to be pushing their limits outdoors, as compared to doing some training indoors. Whilst I respect your arguments about the environmental/aesthetic impact of chalk, I don't think you can argue people aren't pushing the limits outdoors to the point where chalk could be the difference between a send or not and therefore shouldn't use chalk (if that makes sense). Because I think people definitely do get on climbs that push them to the limit, where chalk can make a huge difference - whether this warrants the use of chalk is definitely another argument (as you said so yourself, it's a cop-out).

>We’re not condoning people climbing 31’s
>who sweat buckets, we’re frowning at people who’s ability is something
>like 20+ and they’re dipping on a grade 10, pointless.

I agree that a lot of people use chalk on climbs which they can easily do without, in fact I'm probably guilty of this a lot (having used to be a habitual chalker, trying now though to reduce my chalk usage). I also reckon though that a lot of the people you see on "easier" climbs using chalk, may in fact be climbing at their limit. I don't think you can bag out someone for using chalk on a grade 12, when perhaps grade 12 is their climbing limit and for them chalk will make a huge difference - that is if you're going to accept that people climbing grade 31s can use chalk. It's got to be the same standards for all, either we accept that people will use chalk to push their own limits (whatever grade that may be) or we discourage the use of chalk by everyone - including those cranking superhard.

I think though it is a good idea to encourage people to use minimal chalk and try and use it only when it will really make a difference to their climbing.

>neither of us said we were any better than you

perhaps not, and i'm not trying to make a personal attack or anything, but the following quotes could perhaps be perceived in the wrong way:
>cough *cop-out* cough
>If you ONLY climb to push grades, gain ticks & not appreciate the environment you're >climbing in, then maybe you should stay in the gym.
this definitely makes some big assumptions about people who use chalk