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Open Projects ?? 21-Oct-2003 At 10:03:13 AM Donut King

Message

On 20/10/2003 Peter wrote:
>Hey DK, its funny how a sharp comment provokes a response.

did you expext otherwise?

>But to answer your question, and in my opinion, yes, ownership of a statement
>or view deserves respect, to heckle from the back of the room does not.

I'll move further to the front next time.

Peter, i'm no heckler, and I'm all for climbing "ethics", indeed that is where my point lies. It is IMHO, unethical to make a claim to a peice of cliff face for an *extended period* on the basis that you've put in some bolts and whatever else. Now as to the actual time of the "extended period" required to complete the climb...how long should this be.. 3 months, 6 months....2-3 years?
Each to their own on this point (as we have seen). we have seen in the past (isolated) incidents of people vandelising the rock (smashing holds etc) cos someone gazumped them on "their" climb. Totally unacceptable.

I find it interesting that this theory of "ownership" only applies to sport climbing, or where a bolt is placed, hence my comments re trad + bouldering. if punters think that all unclaimed trad routes are open, then if i place a bolt on it can i therefore "claim" it as being my project? What if someone like Kerianl think it dont need a bolt and that I'm a gutless whimp (not only because i dotn give you my name) because the runnout isnt that bad?
what about placing chains at the end of a trad climb..what affect does that have on it?

>..... I am of the other camp, I think that climbing ethics
>of old should be respected and passed on to us new climbers, just think
> they evolved by word of mouth uncallenged for so long, I know I am in
>no position to change them.

Well I think you are, we all are. if we stuck to *all* the old ethics then we woudlnt be using chalk and active protection or climbing on boulders, and yo-yo'ing would be a legitimate tactic to secure a FA (some people still think it is!...good for them), and pitons would still be whacked in.

>Contrary to popular belief, I am a real person too!
good for you :)

and best 'o luck for the FA.

donking

by the way, you say that it look like no one has been on the route, but you need to place bolts to climb it. Surely then if there are no bolts on the "route" then no one has climbed it?