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Ethics versus style debate continued 1-Jan-2007 At 1:27:00 PM brough

Message

On 1/01/2007 dalai wrote:
>Stop judging people and just go climbing!

1. Please re-read my post. There was no judging of anyone, it was just a debate about a point made by someone else prior. You'll notice that I was careful in my post to point out that I don't personally mind if others don't apply ethics to their actions on the rock if it doesn't affect others. I carefully made no judgement, in fact no reference, to Organ Pipe and his dilemma. Hence my apology, in my initial post, for going off topic. My following arguments addressed specific quotes.

There was no judgment there. Can you please read the post before you respond to it.

On 1/01/2007 dalai wrote:
>Also hard redpoints are also satisfying as the final ascent is a culmination or hard work to link moves at or above your limit to get the final ascent.

2. Sorry Dalai, you've dipped your foot in the water with that point. You've used the words "final ascent" and "redpoint" - words which, by their very existence, reflect a set of morals or principles (ethics - not bureaucracy or rules) underlying the ascent. Tell me what constitutes a redpoint? Final ascent? First free ascent? Where did these terms come from? From a set of principles defining free climbing.

On 1/01/2007 dalai wrote:
>nor reported my ascents who does this impact?

3. And again. I must take you up on that point. I had already argued that just because it didn't affect anyone else that did not preclude the existence of ethics. Re-read my post and the definition of ethics I provided. Your statement tells me that your ethics are: if it doesn't affect anyone else, or no one else finds out, it doesn't matter. That's your ethics, fine, no problems, no judgement. That's different to what my ethics would guide me to do, though. No problems!

On 1/01/2007 dalai wrote:
>Stop judging people and just go climbing!

4. Obviously I'm here posting because I can't go climbing. Thanks for telling me to go climbing, mate

If you think my post is a waste of time and don't want to read it in entirety, that's fine with me, it's a long, perhaps esoteric, piece, perhaps misplaced here. But perhaps don't reply to it in the expectation that I'm not going to take you up on your points.