Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User

Gris Gris banned at Sydney Indoor 29-Jun-2006 At 6:17:14 PM belayslave

Message

On 29/06/2006 nmonteith wrote:
>Experience can equal apathy in my opinion. I know i certainly don't pay
>as much attention to doing up my
>harness, checking my gear etc compared to when i first started. I may
>think its second nature - but
>unfortunately it only takes one minor distraction when doing something
>instinctive and its all over. One
>lesson to be learnt is that even people who should know better still screw
>up.

I'm one of them. I have caught myself jugging up a rope when working without having double backed my
harness. Luckily i'm not too much of a heavy bugger and musn't have been putting too much force
through my harness in my movements so the tail hadn't moved and i double backed it on the spot.
As Neil said, it's only one small distraction which can result in an incident even in experienced people.

Having worked at a number of different gyms with different belay setups i don't believe we're ever going to
find the perfect indoor, TR, belay set up. Some of the setups and reasons IMO:

1. ATC - the best, in my opinion, if it is taught well and properly staffed. A quick demo of what can
happen when you let go scares most people in to doing the right thing.
--> A friend of mine and I did some testing on this set up regarding what the minimum force was needed to
lock the device down. We were able to lock it off simple pinching the rope between thumb and first two
fingers with the climber taking a small fall. IMO if proper technique for using such devices is taught it is
safer for gyms then 'auto-locking' devices.

2. ATC w/ go-slow pulley - Ensuring again proper technique taught for the ATC type device, this setup
works relatively well. My biggest problem (as has been outlined) is the complanceny which is prevalent
with using go-slows. Newbies and experienced people alike have been seen letting go completely of the
break rope.

3. Grigri - My upbringing was on grigris as my ex-local gym used them for all there top ropes. Brings the
same placency problems as the go-slow pulleys. As they were always fixed and pre-threaded on the top
rope there was never the issue of threading it the wrong way. People still wanted to use the leaver as a
speed controller whereas that only adds difficulty to the belaying process with Grigris.
--> Agreed Grigri's have there time and place. I use them a lot for work and play but don't think they serve
a purpose in gyms.

4. Grigri w/ go-slow - As everyone has pointed out... simple NO. too much friction.

5. Sticht plate with or without spring (or other older style belay devices) - I believe these lock up far too
easily and cause a lot of problems. They make the belay process harder (i.e. partiularly newbies struggle
to pull the rope thru the device) which makes them generally try to use another technique (a wrong one!)
to get the rope thru. ATC's run a lot smoother and don't tend to lock up as much.

As for when it comes to lead belaying well it's another kettle of fish. I think SICG, Hardrock and any other
gyms that have banned Grigris (and IMO should be all auto-locking devices) have done the right thing.
Insurers certainly will see it that way. And by more and more gyms around Australia doing it, in the long
run we're going to be promoting a better technique for belaying, this will hopefully be passed on to the
youngsters coming through who will continue with good technique and so it snowballs and everyone
becomes safer.

Jacqui brought up the good point that perhaps gyms should have a period of grace where they're able to
lend ATC type devices out to punters while they get used to the system. But then as has been pointed
out what if they don't know how to use them! Liability nightmare.
I like the idea that i know one Vic gym does, and i'm sure others around AUS do to, where-by they do a
lead belay test for a particular device. Great for the first time, very hard to police and enforce for regulars
and people unless you make them do a test for everything on the one day!

We will soldier on and make our way as gyms always have. Btw, my best wishes to the injured climber
from the incident which sparked this thread at SICG. Wish you a smooth path of recovery.

--> Apologies to anyone who thought my post (this one) was a load of bollocks. it turned out to be a bit
longer then i intended!