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General Climbing Discussion

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scary self detaching bolt plates 21-Apr-2006 At 8:48:45 PM robin

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Hi Jac,
I use all types of bolts and I think that all bolts have there place. I don't agree that glue in rings are the most appropriate bolt for all situations, although this is my preferred bolt type.
>I still don't understand why people are still placing carrots and expansion
>bolts (each of which involve the concept of hangers).
I think you'll find there are many good reasons to place glue in machine bolts rather than a ring bolt.
1. glue in rings are ugly. You can attempt to camofage them but the glue in carrot is less obtrusive.
2. cost - glue in carrots are cheaper and quicker to place than ring bolts. Also, less drilling = less battery power and (slightly) less damage to the rock.
3. tradition - particularly on a mixed trad route a carrot adds character.

>A few annoying things
>about hangers include:
>
>• It is very annoying how the small cross section on the hanger munches
>into your biners during falls.
May be an issue on sports routes where you take many falls but on non-sports routes not an issue . I've taken many repeated 4-5m falls on a single carrot bolt (new route) with no effect on biner, hanger or bolt.
>• You cannot evacuate mid-route as easily as you can on ring bolts.
Again, not an issue on a trad route. If you have to evacuate off gear it will be a lot more expensive, and more dangerous than off a hanger.
>• It's a nuisance for people visiting from interstate/overseas to have
>to carry bolt plates for carrot routes. More gear = more weight = problems
>at the airport.
Again, if overseas visitors are planning on climbing trad/mixed then they'll need gear anyway. A few bolt plates wont add much weight. Also can always use wires to clip over the bolts.
>• Maybe we've got an imperial vs metric vs fancy new skinny biners issue
>as well.
Agree. Why don't we just stick to imperial which is what most if not all the original carrots are. Some of my hangers just do not fit over metric.
>
>All of the above-mentioned issues would be avoided if we were just placing
>glue-in rings…
Maybe for sports routes, but for other styles of climbing I think the glue in machine bolt has it's place.