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Cant believe this talk about carrots vs rings 29-Oct-2004 At 2:40:06 PM PN

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On 29/10/2004 Edward Frillypants wrote:
>Throughout the 50, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and continuing to this day, Australian
>climbing has a history and tradition. Carrot bolts are part of that tradition
>- they were first tested and introduced by Bryden Allen and Jon Davies
>in the 60s as a protection solution for climbing on the friable rock of
>the Blue Mountains.
>
>Australian trad or mixed (if you like) climbs are characterised by carrots,
>using natural gear (where it exists) and getting to the top of the cliff.
>
>Sport climbing - involving fully-equipped climbs with ring-bolts and lower-offs
>- is a much more recent phenomenon. Essentially an import from France.
>
>(It seems that, as sport climbing takes over, the history and/or tradition
>of Australian climbing are being forgotten?? Not that I have anything against
>sport climbing.)
>
>Crucially, trad or 'mixed' routes often require a little more commitment
>than sport climbing and provide variety and colour for many climbers.
>
>Sport climbing is characterised by ring-bolts and lower-offs, so it shouldn't
>be too difficult to understand why some people feel that rings are NOT
>appropriate for certain types of route. Character (of the route), aesthetics
>and style are all considerations in this - many people value the 'minimalist'
>and/or 'adventurous' feel/approach of carrot bolts.
>
>As you can see from the other thread going on, there are plenty of people
>who DO want tradition/style to be upheld for certain styles of route, and
>who respect and desire challenges which are different from those provided
>by sport climbing (hard moves above an ever-present safety net).
>
>Does that help?

They are all valid points Ed.

However, I think that the main issue is one of functionality. Stainless steel glue-in rings are safer, longer-lasting and not in my mind any less aesthetic than carrots. Just because a route is not a sport route, doesn't mean that the bolts placed in the rock should be any less functional than on a sports route. Routes nowadays that have crappy bolts do so generally because the bolts were placed years ago - when the technology in fixed anchor design and manufacture was less sophisticated than it is now - as is the case with most pieces of climbing hardware (caming devices, nuts). If you applied your argument to the latter it means that you would be promoting the use of 60's technology for nuts and hexes to preserve the 'traditional' experience of climbing - fair enough but times change.

The traditional experience and character is not detracted from one bit by the presence of proper, well placed and designed bolts.

The character is what is between the bolts.

Tradition for tradition's sake I don't think is really appropriate when you are equipping a route - that's like saying, we should go back to climbing on hemp ropes, knots and machine nuts, and pitons and whatever they placed for fixed protection before carrots as the only form of fixed gear - if you wanted to preserve the pure, traditional foundations of the sport that's what you would do.