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General Climbing Discussion

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CliffCare Survey-Please help out 4-Jan-2019 At 9:09:14 PM stugang

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>Stu, first, I'm not involved in negotiations but would be astonished if anything had been determined at this stage.

didn’t think you were.

>I did read ODHs stuff pretty carefully.

I’ll take your word for it

>Essentially he's putting up a strawman scenario that neotiations are going to be on a transactional basis, that one area will be traded off against another : I'll give you this if you give me that. The scenario of trading Muline for some minor crag is complete rubbish of course.

I don’t agree that that is what he said and is certainly is not what I am saying. I read it as the negotiation thing is complex with little black or white (apart from obvious transgressions) so if the “climbing community” was going to have a representative then that person or people should have an appreciation of “relative climbing importance” just as the other side has to have a view of “relative cultural significance”. Thats how negotiation works.

>How are we going to deal with a major climbing site that has significant cultural heritage issues? They certainly exist and if it comes to a binary choice between cultural heritage and a first-world sport then I know which will win.

see comments above. You are making a hypothetical conclusion to a non-existent situation….yet..

>As to what anyone's climbing ability has to do with their negotiating skills? It's just elitism. Makes me sick.

no one has said that. Good on you for protecting your mates but I think the point being made is that the role of the negotiator is an important one and requires a breadth of experience and perspective.

>There are going to be some difficult issues to deal with before this is through and name-calling doesn't help.

You can put every0ne at ease by saying that your mates do have this experience and perspective.