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Fixed gear guidelines in the Grampians 16-May-2018 At 12:06:52 PM kieranl

Message

On 16-May-2018 nmonteith wrote:
>I think in general chopping routes that have been around for ages is probably
>a fairly silly thing to do as it will just antagonize and damage the rock
>even more usually. I think a bolt moratorium in places like Rosea, Death
>March, Fortress and Green Gap would be the most agreeable thing that we
>could agree to.

In general I agree that it's preferable not to chop routes "that have been around for ages". But there are times when it may be appropriate or necessary. And of course any damage associated with removing the bolts would have to be taken into account. One of Access_t's posts notes that the placing of bolts which are difficult to remove is also an issue with Parks, so this isn't simple.

How do we say that a climb has been around long enough that it is no longer appropriate to remove the bolts? How long is the time-frame? Do we judge climbs we care about differently to others?

So the single sport route, if it exists, in a remote trad area such as The Fortress should be removed.

The longer mixed route?
Here's some factors that might mitigate in its favour "
- It's on a distinct tower separated from and lower than the rest of The Fortress.
- Mixed as opposed to sport.
- Little prospect of further climbs on this block (I think)
Factors that might go the other way :
- it's lower down and in a valley, may impact on indigenous cultural area. This would have to be based on advice from Parks and Indigenous communities. It's not a climbing judgement.

To me this is something like the process we need to go through with each area. We need to go through a set of parameters, come out with draft recommendation for the area and accept comments.

I picked The Fortress because in some ways it is quite straightforward but it has this one major climb that doesn't fit. It's going to get really messy in the northern Vic Range because the climbing areas are smack in the middle of indigenous sites.