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Fixed gear guidelines in the Grampians 16-May-2018 At 8:41:42 AM (removed)

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On 16-May-2018 bigchris wrote:
>>God, more meh. Spare me. They go back in, or they go in elsewhere, ad
>>infinitum.
>
>
>Yep. Agree.
>
>FYI - I am watching this thread with great interest and having nothing
>of importance to add in regards to actually bolting anything or not. However
>it reminds me of my students in Year 8 arguing over the top of each other.
>
>This thread is:
>
>10 people v 1 person.
>
>It's also 10 people talking about what they think is best for the entirety
>of rock climbing in Australia. You're all trying to do the right thing
>and that's really good. But in 87 responses to the the original post, no-one
>has gotten any closer to sorting anything out. And even if you did magically
>sort anything out, you've probably reached less than 1% of the climbing
>community in Australia, let alone the rest of the world.
>
>I get that there is a thing called 'local ethics' that we all should adhere
>to, but as previously stated, its unlikely that this is always going to
>happen. If you see a line that you can climb that needs some bolts, who's
>going to be there to stop you from putting them in?
>
>Many people have boycotted this website because of threads like this.
>I, on the other hand, am finding it entertaining to watch everyone try
>and yell over the top of each other via a keyboard.
>
>Just in case you didn't know, you can buy yourself a sweet hammer drill
>from Bunnings for $200 and a handful of bolts for $30, which makes bolting
>more accessible than listening to people arguing about it.
>
>I actually have no idea where I was going with this but I did have a long-forgotten
>point :D
>

This is the most depressing response of all. It essentially amounts to "nothing we say will matter anyway so why bother ?"

How is that other areas of the world with clearly established local ethics manage to keep them ? Are we that hopeless over here ? I'm not so certain I share your cynicism. A clearly defined ethic, endorsed by the VCC (without this bit it's useless), published in VL, Argus, here and on thecrag would cover 99%. The remainder could be enforced by those who care about it.

After re-reading everything, I think the real problem is that Victoria doesn't have an established ethic. "Minimal bolts" ? Sure, except if it's a red cave somewhere in which case, fuggit, let's turn it into a sport area ... or if it happens to be next to other sports areas. Or if it's just in an area that wouldn't be climbed otherwise. It's inconsistent, confusing and the bolters are taking advantage of that confusion. The rest of the world ? They can abide by our ethic once we actually know WTF it is. Understanding the local ethic is a pretty normal part of climbing elsewhere.

I'm also annoyed at your (implied) suggestion that Chocky is irrelevant. It's the only place where any decent conversation is going on. If others want to stick their fingers in their ears, that's fine but you lose the right to complain when a decision is made that you don't agree with. They know it's here.