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Fixed gear guidelines in the Grampians 16-May-2018 At 4:22:59 AM Wendy

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On 15-May-2018 Duang Daunk wrote:

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>>What, you don't think that the spread of DW style development would lead
>to PV involvement? I'm not saying that I think a few mixed routes at Rosea
>will lead to wholescale bolting there, but that if it did, it would probably
>come to the attention of PV.
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>Of course DW style of bolting spreading to other areas should rightly
>concern PV. The wonder is that they haven't sent heavy duty messages to
>us already about DW.
>It also concerns ODH, and FatBoy, and me and my minions!, plus some other
>bro's and sisters who I will call the silent majority, you know, those
>ones that will whinge when their liberty to climb sport is banned by PV
>or other State equivalents...

Meh to silent majorities. Silence is a form of being complicit. If they won't to keep climbing, they need to take some responsibility for managing climbing areas. Which i don't think most climbers do. See historical rants about climbers and rubbish, shitting, vegetation destruction, ignoring PV and TO requests etc etc.
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>Btw, I've met bro Joe G and we are on amicable terms, it just shits me
>his lowest common denominator sense of safetyising everything he puts up,
>irrespective of whether those routes are in predominantly bold-ish trad
>areas; and for bro bigchris's benefit, I've also met bro muki and discussed
>with him his retroing of Alis chains at the piles. He doesn't intimidate
>me and it didn't take guts to talk about it with him, so your keyboard
>warrior comment (New bolt on Blimp - Bundaleer thread), is way off mark.

Great, I'm glad someone is talking about this with the actual people involved (although ali's was a long time ago now, there are a few more you could raise since). But i still reckon that that bloody silent majority aren't or are actually giving positive feedback, because it continues.
>
>>Perhaps calling to "climbing ethics" is no longer really going to be
>a very effective call, because the population and the culture is changing.
>What the majority consider normal has shifted.
>
>Yes it has shifted - To the What about me, I'm entitled and it isn't fair,
>I haven't bolted enough and I want more share - mentality.

That's not ethics, that's modern western attitudes in general. But it doesn't change that you want to appeal to something that for most people doesn't exist anymore. They might not even have heard of ideas you consider standard.

>Irrespective of the moratorium even if it was set at sea level, some of
>us have had enough and are now going choppo-recalcitrant, and Gordy types
>are soon going to be outnumbered.
>If you think it won't have an effect and work for balance eventually,
>then read some history on the bolt wars of Cornwall and other southern
>UK climbing hotspots of yesteryear. Feel free to call this attitude climber
>self regulation if you like!
>

We are not in the UK and we are not in yesteryear. I'd look forward to watching the battle rage between you, Damo, Gordy and Muki but it would just be the rock and the environment that suffered in the end.

Im getting kinda bored of macho bolt chopping ranting. I've put up my suggested guidelines, can some per crag advocate put up their suggestions and can some VCC already has one person put up a copy of that? Even if the community agree that bolt chopping rampages were the way forward, we need someway of agreeing on what bolts get chopped. Otherwise, it's just the opinion of individual choppers vs individual bolters.
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