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Fixed gear guidelines in the Grampians 14-May-2018 At 7:01:51 PM Duang Daunk

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On 14-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>With the odd exception such as the bolt on Blimp, I think most climbing
>ethical concerns will overlap with PV concerns. Climbing ethics also involve
>minimising environmental and aesthetic impact. I'm fairly sure that my
>issues with Dreamtime Wall and potential for something similar to happen
>at other obscure crags would be shared with PV. Whilst PV might not care
>if Rosea is a bolt free cliff, I'm guessing they would if it turned into
>a high traffic sport area.

I'm calling hypocrisy sis, as I think you just put another twist on the definition of slippery slope.

>This discussion isn't really about individual
>events like Blimp, but the overall future management of route development.
>We are trying to set standards so that slippery slopes don't occur, because
>much as everyone loves using them for this argument, they can and are stopped
>in almost all cases by agreeing on an appropriate point on the slope to
>set boundaries.

Like Dreamtime?

> Kieran is suggesting doing so by categorising individual
>crags for certain sorts of development. I am suggesting general principals
>that can be applied across the board. Maybe someone has some other ideas.
>But either which way, the question remains, what happens when people don't
>comply?

Chopping rightly starts of the offending bolts as well as including other routes the offender may have put up elsewhere, irrespective of if the bolter is a 7 ft tall giant because confrontation is no loss of energy, and besides it takes more effort and cost to put them in than to remove them.
>
>If we don't utilise existing legal frameworks for causing damage in national
>parks, how do we deal with recalcitrant offenders such as the guy who appears
>to have not learnt from having his previous bolts chopped? I really don't
>think bolting wars are a good solution, even though I know there are people
>on here who love them.

You got the last part right sister.

On 14-May-2018 Wendy wrote:
>We are trying to set standards so that slippery slopes don't occur, because
>much as everyone loves using them for this argument, they can and are stopped
>in almost all cases by agreeing on an appropriate point on the slope to
>set boundaries.

There's that hippo thing again, but at least it seems you admit to them existing, because I was beginning to think you were a denialist.