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Fixed gear guidelines in the Grampians 14-May-2018 At 10:51:19 AM Access T CliffCare

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On 14-May-2018 armstp wrote:
>I have the opposite of PV paranoia as I would guess that in reality they
>are not going to do anything. They are not going to ban climbing and they
>are not going to deal with inappropriate bolting as they can’t tell it
>apart from any other kind of bolting.
>
>I know that in the past the most complaints they got about bolts and climbing
>was in relation to Sandinista Wall. It is directly above a popular walking
>track, it is covered in bolts and chalk and hiking groups have complained
>about the eyesore of this stuff in a spectacular natural environment.

>Despite a number of complaints as far as I know PV never did a thing.
>
>After the 2006 fires I worked with a Ranger assessing a few fire damaged
>cliffs. Her only concern in relation to bolts was whether they had been
>damaged by the fires and should be replaced to make them safer.
>
>I suppose what I am saying is that you may as well leave PV out of the
>equation in terms of controlling climber behaviour. It might work as a
>threat for some people I suppose, just so long as they never call your
>bluff. If you do report these climbers what is PV going to do? From
>a Rangers point of view as a compliance officer what makes these new anchors
>at Camels Hump any different from all the other anchors at Camels Hump
>other than that the climb was first done without them. I don't see the
>basis for legal action as it is a climbing ethical issue not an environmental
>one. You can't legitimately fine someone for retro bolting a route
>when there are numerous similar bolted routes around. Legally all the
>bolted routes are wrong or none of them are. Retro bolting is not against
>the law, only against climbing ethics.

Hmm, I can't say I agree with all of your points there. I have been hearing complaints and it hasn't been about Sandanista. Because a ranger's concern voiced to you was just about whether the bolts were damaged and that was it, was probably more related to the fact that it was a specific concern at the time and there was other conversation that didn't include you. I heard those concerns too. I also heard other concerns that had nothing to do with fire damage and was a different conversation.
Whilst it appears nothing has been done about it, doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed and that nothing will continue to be done about it. Some things take time and some times, it's about giving usergroups the opportunity to listen, learn and self regulate/manage. It's also not always about environmental. As I said, it's complex. And there are different issues at different cliffs and parks. One of the biggest issues we will be dealing with is cultural heritage and Traditional Owners. And more specifically in the Grampians, which let's face it has the bulk of climbing and new routing going on.This should be done sensitively and I would also hope that the climbing community is keen to see how we can best be respectful and non damaging to the cultural heritage that is in the park. This should be regardless of what PV would like to do in order to manage it from their end.