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General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User
The Irish Solution to The Ben Lomond Problem 18-Sep-2017 At 1:45:48 PM Wendy
On 16-Sep-2017 johny wrote:

>Some good points Wendy. I agree with Gerry. I also agree with Rowan. Fairhead
>access is different but the ethic is similar enough. Gay marriage and bolting?

The connection with gay marriage is in the illogical extrapolation. the catastrophising that gay marriage ruin the very fabric of society and that one rap station will ruin the very essence of ben lomond.
>Wendy, I think you are a bit harsh calling the chain rap station ridiculous.
>It's an effort at compromise.

I think it's a silly exercise at compromise. If i'm reading gerry correctly, he doesn't like the tat or the chain for the same reasons as a bolt anchor - they mean there is something fixed on the cliff and people are not topping out and having that full experience that he is rather fond of. I actually wonder if a fixed rap line is that different - it's an escape route. If I was going for the full traditional experience, I wouldn't want to start at the top and have a potential escape route. I'd want to start at the bottom, top out, find my way down. Now, I'm not really that fussed about that experience, but that would be the "traditional" experience. So this having a fixed line, or a chain sounds like silly ways to avoid the full experience whilst somehow trying to use it to justify them.

I actually don't mind the idea of rapping in to ben lomond from the top, and i'll give it a go next time i'm there. The walk across the scree and the grotty scrambles to the routes aren't any fun either. But I don't think it changes that for those people who are coming in from the bottom, and that will be most because that's what the guide says to do, a rap anchor is a good thing. Hell, I'd vote for several to cover the main areas people climb. I do think it's hazardous to say a 70 will do it on rope stretch from a non-fixed anchor, because if you set a slightly different anchor in a slightly different spot, you'll probably end up slightly short of the ground.

A rap anchor doesn't lead to wholescale bolting, chipping, glueing on holds, a cable car and hanging restaurant. It just leads to a safe descent that doesn't trash the gully for the most popular areas. How does that ruin the intrinsic nature of the crag? Just like same sex marriage doesn't ruin the fabric of society. It just means that those gay people who like having the state regulate their relationships according to an oppressive historico-legal institution can choose to do so and whilst it's not my cup of tea, it's a non discriminatory cup of tea (well, except against non-marriage relationships, but that's getting into further tangents).

I also think you are understating the traditional
>climbing ethic of Ben Lomond. I agree that Gerry's argument about National
>Parks is weak. He is using anything he thinks will keep the place bolt
>free. Picking against the weakest links in his argument does not make your
>case. He is not out to win an points in a debate. He wants the spirit of
>the place respected.
>Ben Lomond is a special place that needs to be kept bolt free. I like
>this idea. It suits the Tasmanian ethic in general.

I think the bolt free thing has become a catch call and all the reasoning is trying to justify it. That's also not dissimilar to the SSM debate.
>Gerrys Irish solution seems to have been implemented so its working.

Implemented by a local or 2 . Obviously not by the one's who put in the chain or the many who left the tat.

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