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Fully sick bolt wars at Araps 13-May-2016 At 8:53:38 AM Wendy

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On 11/05/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 11/05/2016 simey wrote:
>>I actually think that route by route "fixing" does work. If someone oversteps
>>the mark, then there is the chance to say so and remove the bolts.
>
>There are tons of modern retrobolts I would like to remove from Araps.
>The reasons I haven't done so are that a) I'm not a local here, and b)
>most of the bolts were installed by people I know and like, and they'd
>probably take it personally............

What an outrageously sensible consideration .... I know that vigilante chopping has a history in the clmibing world, but it is much better for relationships when you actually talk about stuff and chances are you'll reach a happy resolution. I don't know who replaced the old bolt in Trojan that you don't like but I have heard a few people complain about it and can't think of anyone who has objected to the idea of it not being there so you'd probably find talking about it even got you the result you want.

>and c) who has the time to chop at araps when there are so many good routes to climb?

>
>>Every
>>climb at Arapiles has a different set of considerations with regard what
>>is reasonable/unreasonable with potential bolting. A "whole cliff view"
>>doesn't allow for the myriad of climbs and climbing styles that take
>place
>>at Arapiles.
>
>I didn't mean a single ethic for the whole cliff. When looking at a single
>route with blinkers on, it might seem to be better with retrobolts. But
>step back and look at the whole wall, and perhaps the no-star route with
>ugly bolts on a wall full of classics is in fact not the best thing for
>the crag.
>
>>Not every piece
>>of rock needs to be climbed nor have a line of bolts up it.
>
>I like the idea of "red zones". If you've scoped out a section of cliff
>and feel that any new bolted route would be impinging upon the routes around
>it, designate a red zone on a photo topo. Any bolts which appear in the
>red zone are subject to immediate chopping, regardless of whether they
>are written up as retrobolts, new routes, or variants.

What an unworkable suggestion though! Who is going to designate the red zones? how messy would that make topos? when is any one going to go over every cliff at the mt like that anyway? The whole cliff would just be a red zone in some books.

I agree that there are a few bolts and routes squished in recently that don't add to the mt around the place. But that's actually nothing new. Grab Lou's guide and look around a few spots and be amazed at what got squished in. On the other hand, there are expanses of rock that haven't any routes on them that clean up into quite nice routes, and I think there is a lot to be said in adding to the range of moderate routes at the mt, because how crowded does it get on the organ pipes, central gully left, preludes wall, mari buttress, Morhpydd area etc etc?

I think that select guides have lead to people thinking that routes outside of it must not be worth climbing and the traffic on certain areas increases. Sure, that's great for me as no one is likely to climb anything I'm going to climb But spreading the load around is actually a good thing, be that cleaning up old routes or developing new ones.
I wouldn't go out and retrobolt anything that was standardly done in its current state. Classic bold routes should also stay that way. Obscure routes that never get any attention that were originally done in 80s anything goes style that the FA is happy with changing and might become reasonable ground up ascents if they were cleaned and fixed up are a different story.
These are the only things I've ever added bolts to and most of them replaced old fixed gear. Those that want to onsight bold routes can still run out and do Terminal Drive, Lois Lane, Ride Like the Wind, Take 5 and numerous others. Or head point them if you will.

And yes, bolts can look rather stark, should be camoflaged and not everyone has been. I have been placing painted hangers, but as they have been getting scratched in the installation, I have taken to painting them afterwards. I didn't get a chance to paint the ones on MB before they were removed, but a little grey paint would make them much less noticeable. And it's not like the area doesn't already have any bolts.