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Sonnie Trotter Goes Down on Tasmania 26-Feb-2016 At 9:03:23 AM Tastrad

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One day hero..what a fun sucker you are! Why does me pottering around the local crags having fun and doing new routes upset you so much.

Its not OCD..its my climbing life, my fun..and no-one has the right to judge me for that..like I said, every first ascent is a worthwhile line, to the first ascensionist at least. I don't think I've bolted a single no-star filler..at $5 a bolt, why would I waste my money..and the majority of the 800 or so new routes I've done are trad routes..which are obvious lines.

I don't bolt a route or put up a trad climb for anyone elses enjoyment except mine..the only responsibility I have towards the community is to bolt them safely and report them accurately, and I don't give a rats arse if anyone repeats them. If you pander to the community any more than that, you get the absurd situation of someone bolting a gym hold to the crag at Duck Reach, to create an enjoyable route for the community, because not everyone can climb 27, or bolting offwidths because not everyone owns a #5 camalot.

As for shortman, read Bob's quote again..the route did not exist before someone climbed it. A route by definition is a path that's been travelled..before that it was a non-descript piece of rock. The climb is a creation of the first ascensionist. I've done plenty of trundling and brushed moss off some awesome grade 9's myself, so more power to ya.

So, trying to steer this thread back to its original theme, the first ascentionist also creates a precedent for a crag for style, bolts, mixed routes, type of bolts etc.
Nick Hancrock still places carrots in some locations to minimize visual impact. Sam Edwards originally tried to keep the Paradiso as a mixed gear crag in deference to trad ethics..if there was an obvious bomber trad piece, no bolt went there. 20 years later, people are retrobolting them out of laziness because they cant be bothered carrying one cam up a route.
Ben Lomond is bolt free, so hard new trad routes have to be cleaned, rehearsed, gear inspected, otherwise you die. Sonny led c-head crack with pre-placed wires and the first few were pre-clipped to save a ground fall..no worse than stick-clipping a high first bolt. Its not great style, but still counts as a first free ascent. Judgemental fun-suckers would deny him that.

If only the ethical highpoint counted as the first free ascent, that is ground up, placing gear on lead, lowering after a fall, pulling the ropes etc, then a legitimate repeat would only count if done in the same style. Even though I'm loathe to support pre-placed gear, it makes sense to have, as Dave Jones suggests, the FFA in whatever style as the benchmark, the lowest common denominator so to speak..and repeat ascents can improve the style, but not claim the first free ascent.

If the FA was done in impeccable style, then the shenanigans of repeaters in lesser style would still count as a free ascent, with room for improvement.