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Sonnie Trotter Goes Down on Tasmania 19-Feb-2016 At 4:31:24 PM johny

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Here we go again with your insane (inane?) analogies. Im talking about ffa. Repeat anything you want in whatever style you want. India was probably lead with fixed gear like many of the routes back then done in what most people today would reckon dodgy style. This is exactly what Im suggesting we move away from by having a clear standard of establishing first ascents.

Its actually not that controversial. Most people establishing 5.13 or harder follow this ethic. I think it should be for easier routes. This whole "as long as you are honest" about the style of ascent seems to get forgotten pretty quickly.

Ethiopia has one additional bit of fixed gear at the roof after India. The rest is bolts. Its not a trad route in the slightest. If you are going to use an analogy please keep to routes you actually know about so we have a starting reference point. Again we didnt do the first ascent so its an irrelevant comparison on pretty much every level... as usual. And what is this dogging the living shit comment? I think I spent about as many days dogging ethiopia as you did on punks in the gunks. In fact punks in the gunks is the only thing I have ever climbed with you. And it provides a great starting point for reading the rest of your comments. If it makes you feel better I guided a 15 year old girl up that route a couple weeks later and she climbed it in the same style as you- That is toproped with the second bolt preclipped from 10 metres up. So you are a role model of sorts. Congrats.