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General Climbing Discussion

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Extreme sports and kids... 22-May-2015 At 11:49:51 AM Snacks

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On 22/05/2015 Wendy wrote:
>My concern is that these things end us rapidly in really questionable places.
>What is the definition of a dodgy horse? What I consider a dodgy horse
>(anything bigger than a pony that does more than trot!) is different to
>others. What people consider a safe climb is different to others. One of
>the many great points of disagreement I have with Simey is whether Camalot
>and Trapeze are good beginner leads. I say no. Simey says yes. Say Simey
>puts a new leader on Trapeze, they fall and hurt themselves. Is he negligent
>putting them on that climb? How do we define "overtly negligent" in such
>unregulated industries and do we want such regulation in recreational climbing
>anyway? SCUBA here we come ... I am all for having standards for professional
>climbing instruction.I am all for them being held accountable to working
>in accordance with those standards. But do we expect all recreational
>climbers to have that level of skill? Given that clearly, most don't, I
>have also been a strong advocate of beginners seeking professional instruction.
>
>I guess there is also a lot of non-intentional ignorance out there, ie
>people don't realise that they are not doing something very safely. Which
>raises questions about both -
>
>what is "what a reasonable climber with average skills" might do - ie
>what is the base line that any potentially negligent climber will be compare
>against given that lots of climbers skillset, experience and judgement
>is limited.
>
>where does someone stand when they don't realise they are doing something
>stupid? can they be negligent when they are in fact ignorant?

Yikes... you sound very anxious about all this... do you have some as yet identified climbing beginners lying at the base of a climb somewhere or something? ...

If you instructed someone to unclip their safety without them having another point of attachment and they fell and hurt themselves in a teacher/learner situation then yes, you'd be negligent...

The prosecution can have an ugly time of demonstrating what is best practice within a given recreational community but for a particular act once this is established from testimonies/manuals etc. then the instructor's advice would be compared against this. The above example I gave is fairly clear cut.

It is partially comforting that people can be held accountable for demonstrated negligence. I understand that it is equally distressing, but I guess that is kind of the point? Yes?