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Grid bolting at Windjammer Pt Perp 2-Dec-2014 At 5:59:54 PM sbm

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After a bunch of these conversations, my conclusion is if you don't like a bolt, chop it. We can make concerned comments on chockstone til the Point falls into the ocean, but action talks. You've got just as much right to chop it, as the guy that put it in has to drill it.

My second conclusion is that new routing in this day an age, when we already have lifetimes of established climbing, is selfish. Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't do it (hey I do from time to time) but this bullsh-t about "developing" routes for "the community" and for "new climbers" and "furthering the sport" needs to die. You're doing it for yourself, because you like the process for yourself, and so you and your mates can feel cool having your own areas that aren't in the guidebook and then feel cool having your names in the next edition. Even new "trad" routes usually involve heavily modifying the cliffs with "cleaning". We need to stop glorifying it.

Imagine if a guidebook stripped out all the first ascentionist names, and instead put in a list of people who'd been to crag & cliffcare days and who had been involved in improving access.