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Three Sisters declared an Aboriginal Place 25-Jan-2014 At 10:54:54 PM simey

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On 25/01/2014 ithomas wrote:
>Who is being over-zealous? Do the maths? How many documented routes are
>now unavailable to climbers because land has been given BACK to Aboriginal
>communities?

There are a shitload of potentially great, GREAT climbs that we are unable to climb due to land rights. Having climbed and walked a bit in the Northern Territory I have seen some brilliant routes that we can't access at places such as Uluru, Kata Tjutu, Kakadu, and parts of the Macdonnell Ranges. I haven't been to Western Australia, but I understand that that many parts of the Kimberly, as well as Windjana Gorge are off limits and would offer terrific climbing. I am not complaining, but simply pointing out that we don't always get our own way.

>Ten? Twenty? One hundred? How many documented climbs are
>there in Australia? Thousands and thousands. How many more climbs are out
>there waiting first ascents? Thousands and thousands. So, who is being
>over-zealous and small minded? It's certainly not the Aboriginal community!

Do any Aboriginal people really care if people are climbing the Mantleshelf and the West Wall on the Three Sisters? Maybe. Do I care when I visit some of the gorgeous waterholes in the Macdonnell Ranges and they are totally trashed with broken bottles and other rubbish from Aboriginal people. Well I do. I appreciate that there are a lot of issues at play here and that there are no easy answers, but I reckon respecting each others rights to access certain places and respecting the land should play a role for all parties.

>Get real climbers and try to show a bit of generosity. Maybe even get involved
>with your local indigenous community and offer to take young Koori's on
>a learn to climb weekend. How great would it be to have future Aboriginal
>elders understanding what a deep connection we climbers have with the landscape?

I have introduced all sorts of people to climbing voluntarily, but experience has taught me to be pretty realistic about the outcomes. And I strongly suspect that very few Koori's would give a rat's arse about going climbing. Climbing is an indulgent sport practiced by a very small minority of usually well-to-do. I would rather get involved with Kooris in the world of footy and share a common love and learn more about their background from that perspective as opposed to ramming climbing down their throats.

>Now that would be a win - win situation; but it would depend crucially
>on climbers being open, fair minded and having a vision which extends beyond
>the next climb.

Well you think taking Kooris climbing would be a win-win. I have my doubts. But if any Kooris were curious about climbing, then I would be more than happy to teach them all the skills. They might even get psyched to establish routes on some of those cliffs I mentioned. How would that all fit into this ethical debate?