Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Topic Date User

Carrot failure @ Muline 27-Nov-2013 At 11:22:53 AM Tastrad

Message

No, they didn't fall out - a few were found to be loose and pulled out with fingers - retightened they are fine. A subaru wouldn't pull it out of a gutter. What I don't understand is Sliamese and others taking it upon themselves to be the rock police and saying they would replace what they think are bad bolts without discussing it with first ascensionists.
I think the first ascensionist should have input to decide the future protection on a route if people are intending to change it. If the initial bolts were proven to be dodgy, then a reasonable person should agree to have them replaced. But I would draw the line at adding bolts and also changing the position of bolts.
There is talk for instance of a grade 16 having bolts added so it is safer for beginners. I initially led it on wires, but then retrobolted with 3 bolts (99% of routes at Hillwood initially led with some gear have been retrobolted). Its a bit runout and you might go close to decking, but climbing is a dangerous sport, and people don't have to rope up on that route - its not my fault if someone hurts themself - they chose to climb it. If one of the bolts I installed failed and someone got hurt, then I would feel a degree of responsibility, but of course a first ascensionist should take all diligence to install the best possible gear he can manage/afford based on research and advice of other experienced practioners. But climbers also also need to realise they climb at their own risk and not to blindly trust fixed gear.
There are some new routes down here still being established with carrots and with no lower-offs by some climbers for several reasons - environmentally less obtrusive - and also a philiosophy which says they only put enough bolts in (and the type of bolt) to get up the route themselves, and stuff future ascensionists. I can understand that - I don't have to repeat their routes.
There is no universal bolting standard, and I think its unwise for Sliamese and others to decide what is the ultimate bolting standard and imposing that on everyone by replacing all bolts that don't meet his standard. Then he takes on that responsibility for everyones safety which is a dangerous precedent.
Are we getting closer to the day where there is an Australian/international standard that we all have to adhere to, have training to industry standard and a bolting license that is checked by the rock police and fines imposed because we set up a dodgy climb. Climbing has always been a bit anarchic and self regulated - lets leave it that way - as long as we are responsible in the equipping of our climbs.